I’m retuning to the hobby after last operating a layout as a kid in the 90s, and it’s amazing to see the advancement and change in technology since then. I had the opportunity to recently acquire a neighbor’s layout (faithful recreation of the Jerome & Southwestern, including the Back Alley & Wharf extension, for those who are familiar). It enabled me to get back into the hobby quickly as benchwork, track and much of the scenery was complete. The wiring was removed, originally a conventional DC setup, but I’d like to take the opportunity to re-wire for DCC. I’ve read through this forum, and watched a significant amount of youtube, especially the DCC guy to try to get up to speed but still have lots of questions, including which DCC platform to select. Hoping some of the good forum members here might recommend their preferred DCC platform option, given the following requirements:
Able to use multiple throttles (2 to start, but ability to expand to 3+ over time as I look to expand the layout)
Wireless throttles if possible or at a minimum ability to have multiple ports to plug in to
Likely operating 2 – 3 locos in the near term but ability to expand beyond 4 in the future
Ability to set up power districts and circuit breaking capability
In the near term, will need to be able to handle 1 reversing loop and 1 wye (one side of the wye will share track with a portion of the reversing loop)
Ability to keep a programming track permanently wired in
Not planning to use DCC for turnouts and turntable operation, but rather than rebuild control panels, would like to use an iPad based system – not sure if I’m able to get that recommendation in this part of the forum but if so would be helpful
Well, the reason all that info hasn’t pointed you to a specific system is because - ALL of them can do those requoirements.
It’s not even so much the throttle design any more, either - as there is the option of using a smartphone or tablet, or the TCS throttles, or the ESU throttle, or if you want to feel like you’re in the cab, the ProtoThrottle. All of which can work with basically any of the available DCC systems, even the DIY ones.
If you want to use repurposes iPads for control panels, then you will need some form of remote control for the turnouts. Why not DCC, since it’s already going to be there? The panels on each tablet can work with something like JMRI to control things. Just because the turnouts are controlled by DCC decoders doesn’t mean you have to use your DCC throttle - that’s probably the worst way to run a layout, if you ask me. No matter what brand of DCC system, its awkward to switch between turnout control and running your train. Even if wanted for dispatcher operation, having some sort of local control near the turnout is much easier to use. If ordinary buttons or taggles are used - then there is no need to connect the turnouts to DCC unless you want to allow for a dispatcher. But if you are using virtual panels on a device, then there needs to be some sort of controller no matter what, and the virtual panel takes the place of the local physical controls.
But yes, the criteria you have outlined can be met by pretty much every current production DCC system. Most even have enough power to run 3-4 simultaneous HO sound locos right out of the box, no additional boosters needed.
Got any more requirements or desired features that might point to one brand over another?
Depends on what you like. I like Digitrax because it feels like old school but can do what the others do, I like the knobs for control, NCE is you like the wheels for control.
ANd Digitrax has aknob and buttons. I just don’t know anyone who controls the speed on Digitrax with the buttons though. Half the time I don’t even remember they’re there.
Do remember that DCC allows more than one locomotive to run on the “same track” but it doesn’t change your brain power. Speaking purely personally I point out that running one train at a time is more than enough to do. A second train must pretty well be set and forget as far as actual control is concerned. Add a third train and the job of circus juggler starts to look attractive by comparison.
DCC reduces complexity of wiring the layout, although even there the power districts are wired very similar to the ok’d fashioned power blocks. DCC adds nifty features like very, very slow speed locomotive control, nicely realistic inertia (momentum) effects for acceleration and for braking, and some quite nice sound effects. Apart from that it really doesn’t make actually running trains any easier.
Four locomotives running at the same time will prove a handful and a half for one operator.
As noted, most any of the DCC systems out there will allow you to do all that. Only thing I’d say from my experience is I started in DCC with Digitrax, and it was fine until I tried adding wireless radio control. It was very sketchy, not much better than ‘line of sight’ infrared.
I eventually switched to CVP’s “Easy DCC” system, and have been very impressed with their wireless system. A nice part about CVP is you can adjust the amount of power used by the walkaround unit to transmit the signal, so can fine-tune it to your layout area’s needs. Note that only sell direct, so unfortunately you can’t go see their stuff at the LHS.
Big Daddy wrote: “His requirement for 2 wireless throttles means the OP is thinking about multiple operators, or he has more hands and heads than the rest of us.”
I run my (small) railroad each night about 10pm, then come back upstairs to check on the forum.
How’s this for “2 wireless throttles”:
Might as well have them running side-by-side on one tablet, right?
I normally run 2 engines at once this way. But I can get 3 engines going simultaneously for a short while, sometimes even 4 for a short time – all controlled from this one display. (Roco z21 app) Takes only 1 second to scroll through the list at the bottom (about 25 engines), tap another, and take it over…
I have said before that the only way I would consider DCC was if I had to start over from scratch.
Then I would build a G scale around-the-walls switching layout powered by a single GP7 or GP9. It would have MASSIVE speakers on board, and controlled with one of these.
Running a train like this seems very appealing to me.
Just a reminder that G is a reference to track gauge rather than model scale.
Secondly, there is no need to “start again” to repower a DC layout with DCC.
There seems to be a bit of a mystique about the perceived differences between DCC and DC. A layout wired for DC can be pretty much just connected to DCC instead of the DC powerpack. Ironically, the more complex the DC wiring you have the trickier it can get. DCC is easier to wire.
In reality you need to know what you want. Digitrax is much cheaper if you need basic stuff. If you want to go radio controled, then that is another matter. Only reason I went DCC for my smallish layout was sound, much easier than DC. Cheaper in the fact that my whole system 4 panels, 2 throttles, 1 master older DCS 51 bought used, all else new for less than $300 including cables and all but the master bought at a real hobby store, master bought on e-bay.
And for something like 75 years it had another name - Number 1 gauge! Unfortunately when LGB hit the US in the early '70’s No.1 gauge was largely forgotten and people started calling it “G”. I suppose it’s just like baseball pitching - the ‘forkball’ became the ‘split finger’ and the ‘palmball’ became a ‘circle change’. [soapbox]
Exactly right! I think people read about all the options DCC has, with setting CVs and such, and think it’s this super-complex deal when it’s really the opposite.
The advent of the real throttles that use WiFi, like the TCS UWT-100 and UWT-50, negate a lot of the feature differences between DCC systems. Yu have a knob throttle, and you have a thumbwheel and button throttle that work on nearly every DCC system.
One example - something NCE definitely does better than Digitrax is consisting. But the UWT throttles have an in-throttle consisting that is at least as good as NCE and potentially even better. And the UWT can work on Digitrax or most any other brand as well.
AFter reading up on the latest Easy-DCC offerings - sorry, but no thanks. They seem trapped in the past on the command station side. While it might seem simple when operating as a guest on someone’s layout and they just hand you a throttle and tell you to run your train, what goes on behind the scenes makes Digitrax seem easy (which is is - and the complex throttle operations are LONG in the past). The idea of setting up the throttle by the layout owner and handing it to an operator who has to do nothing but turn the speed knob and change direction can be done on most any system. If a Digitrax or NCE layout owner or the operator acting as the engine yard hostler doesn’t just hand you a throttle for your assigned Extra 602 East, that’s not a system issue, that’s a “how I run my railroad” issue. On ANY common DCC system, there’s no need for a road crew operator to have to know how to select locos and create consists.
Consisting for example. Easy-DCC does a command station consisting like Digitrax (but the manual cautions you to not create many consists this way because system performance suffers - mainly in terms of command lags). And it also does CV19 Advanced Consisting - but it’s straight up CV19, not the enahanced mode the NCE uses. So you ALSO have to program CV21 and CV22 to control which functions get activated in a consist. You may think this has no bearing if you don;t use sound - but there is always the headlight. Don
Randy, thanks that was interesting, at least for as much interest as I have in the subject.
Years ago CVP had what I thought was the best wireless throttle. And I actually like the command station console. But I get it.
This is part of the bigger picture of why I don’t care for DCC, I like the tactile and visual nature of traditional controls.
Many years ago now I designed a layout for a friend, a basement filling layout, and helped build it. He used Digitrax and wired all the turnouts to stationary decoders and did not have control panels of any kind - I never did get comfortable operating that layout.
Later he admitted the turnout control was a mistake and added local buttons.
He never installed CTC or signaling so the decoder control of the turnouts was used less and less.
That layout is gone now, he moved into a retirement living situation and sold his big house in the rural suburbs - I get moving to a smaller house, we did that, but the retirement community thing… not me.
Every layout is different, every operating scheme is different, but I like control panels.
I hate trying to remeber numbers, or button sequences, or reading small displays - it sucks all the fun out for me.
So CVP may not be the choice it once was, but I guess that too depends on your needs and goals.
That’s been my position all along - not one brand of DCC system makes flipping turnouts by the DCC throttle convenient. The only reason I did it (new layout, I am building my own CMRI for CTC control) was to enable setting up panels in JMRI for dispatcher control. Operator control was by a more standard pushbutton on the fascia. In fact, I didn’t WANT people changing turnouts from the throttle - and with Digitrax that’s actual easy to accomplish, there is a command station setting that makes it ignore switch commands from throttles. So either you press the fascia button, or the dispatcher lines you.
The second point - it is entirely possible, as I said, for the engineer to be handed a throttle and all you would need to do is turn the knob to drive the train. Select a loco? na. Program it? No way should an operator at an operating session be programming locos. You should be able to just take the offerend throttle and run trains the same way you do with a walkaround DC throttle. Now on the backend, the owner of the layout has to do a little homework to make it this simple for the guests. But really, it doesn’t have to be difficult for the non-DCC user. We do this at the club - some members do not have DCC at home - many don’t even have any sort of layout. The only palce they get to run trains is when we have a show somewhere, so it’s been a while for them. As such, they get maybe 5-10 hours of hands on throttle time in a year. So someone sets up a throttle connected to their train and hands it to them, and all they need to do it turn the knob and watch the signals. Seems to work.
