I have yet to be able to just plug in a sound decoder and run a loco. In almost every case, there isn’t enough room to put a sound decoder on top of the regular light board. In every case, I have had to remove the light board and hard wire the decoder into the loco. Then with the light board gone, I have to use the proper resistor for the lights. Perhaps a tiny silent decoder could be fit in somewhere, along with the regular light board, but not a sound decoder. Am I the only one who finds it this way?
It’s DCC ready, not DCC+Sound ready.
You did not understand the full meaning of DCC Ready. The term does not mean any decoder/speaker will fit in the loco or tender. You have to know the capabilities of your install.
You have to do some home work and ask in a forum Before buying the products. Some locos are easier than others. Don’t make assumptions. It is not a cruel joke or the manufactures fault.
I would never try to put a big block V8 in a car without doing some home work first. I learned that in the late 1950s. Some emgine installs required a lot of work to “upgrade”.
Rich
I believe it is a cruel marketing term. It means, “C’mon, Bud, plunk some cash down for this bad boy. Sure you can get a decoder in it…heck, my Grandma could do it in her sleep.” You may be lucky and find the motor truly isolated from the frame, or that there is space for a speaker of a size, or that their is space for the decoder and a harness that will actually work when you get the decoder.
You may. May not.
-Crandell
I found a NYC A and B set EMD HO F7 for $99.00 at the Broadway site that is DC only.
I found out they also come with DCC ready and DCC with sound. Some research shows I can install a decoder and speaker in each unit. I do not know how right now.
When I get them, I will then check the insides to see what kind of room I have for decoder and speaker.
Then I will order the DCC items as all DCC companies show the dimensions of the decoder and speaker.
A little bit of research can go a long way.
Try it, you will like it.
Rich
No research neccessary. If I want a loco, I buy it. I’ve done dozens of sound installs. I just get a little bummed at the term DCC ready, and the eight pin plug on the decoder, which I always have to cut off. It just makes extra work.
To the OP and Crandell,
I don’t really want to start the whole RTR vs “building models” thing here, but last time I checked it was still largely a hobby of building things, be it the locomotives and rolling stock by some of us or at least the layout and structures by most all.
There is simply no way every manufacturer can make sure every loco they build is “easy” enough for the desired “skill level” or “easyness level” of every person who might buy it without checking it out first. Especially since most don’t make or sell decoders and the range of products you may try to install is large.
The more the RTR “group” pushes for that kind of thing, the more prices will increase and the hobby will move toward a “Marklin” or “MTH” kind of modeling.
And on that note I am glad I have most of the locos and rolling stock I need/want for my modeling goals because those kind of prices would drive me right out of the hobby. Not to mention that I like to build/modify stuff and as more is made “RTR”, and in a manner that is hard to disassemble, it gets more difficult to “rework” or “kitbash”. Manufacturers - this may be partly why your market is shrinking?
If you don’t want to install the decoders, pay the big bucks for the ones that come with sound and DCC. As another poster said “its DCC ready, not sound and DCC ready”. Many of those I know woh use DCC and do lots of decoder installs say that for many reasons they prefer to remove all thatstuff and hardwire the decoder. I know from several that Bachmann locos in particular can benifit from this.
Note to all - I know the manufacturers follow this forum, so this post is intended to be a message to them as much as to those discussing the topic.
Personally, the few locos that I must buy with decoders, get them taken out, and sometimes more weight added in their place
Hobo,
I feel your pain. In its crudest sense, I suppose DCC Ready means nothing more than the fact that the manufacturer has isolated the motor from the frame.
Here is what Loys Toys says about DCC Ready:
DCC Ready usually means the loco is ready for a DCC decoder. But DCC Ready can mean any number of things - depending on the loco manufacturer’s interpretation of what DCC Ready really means. In this dialog, we’ll start with the “true” meaning of DCC ready, and digress to the worst interpretations of it.
The real meaning of DCC Ready is that the loco is pre-wired with an NMRA-recommended socket. All you have to do to install a decoder is unplug the dummy plug that is plugged into that socket and plug a decoder in that has an NMRA-recommended plug that matches the socket.
It sure would be nice if DCC Ready meant that there is sufficient space and pre-wiring to simply drop in a decoder with sound board and speaker. But, we ain’t there yet.
Rich
I think the main point of all this is that the term “DCC-ready” means different things to different manufacturers, rather than be a universally consistent and understood term.
For some manufacturers it just means the motor is isolated from the frame. For other manufacturers it means that an 8-pin NMRA socket has been added. And, as others have stated, you have to do your homework to find out what it will take to get your “DCC-ready” locomotive to the “DCC-equipped” point.
Since locomotives are NOT all the same size, it would be difficult to make them all “sound-ready” as some would become very light on the pulling because some of the chassis or frame would need to be removed in order to fit a speaker and/or decoder under the hood.
Tom
Maybe we need a new designation “DCC with sound ready”? Are we talking steam or diesel here? How “ready” does it need to be? Do they need to tell you in advance which decoders fit and which don’t?
Nobody tells me in advance about all the built in electronics trash in these new locomotives that does not work well with my advanced DC throttles. I have to buy them, test them, figure it out and modify them to run to my standards on my equipment. In one form or another this has always been true, likely always will.
Sheldon
Well…no one has suggested that the OP should research before he buys. All you would have to do is look at install examples with this loco to see what is involved…
Google is an awesome tool…
David B
Well, actually the second guy to respond did suggest he ‘do his homework’ before buying. [:)]
It’s important for the OP to remember that a sound decoder is generally a lot larger than a standard decoder. As he supposes, many engines now have lightboards with an eight-pin plug that will readily accept a silent DCC decoder plug-in with no trouble. However, for adding sound unless you have a lot of room (like an E or F unit or a dummy unit, or a steam loco tender) you’re normally better off using a lightboard replacement sound decoder. That way the decoder doesn’t take up any more space than the lightboard did, and you just need to find space for a speaker. I find a 1/4" x 1/2" speaker will work fine and fit in most any diesel.
As others have noted, there is no set meaning for “DCC Ready”, it just means whatever the manufacturer wants it to mean - anything from having an eight-pin receptacle, to just having enough room to fit in a decoder. Still, any engine can be converted to DCC if you really want to. I’ve had several engines that required the motor be insulated from the frame before installing the decoder, it’s not that hard. It’s often just a matter of putting a piece of tape in the right place.
The title of the thread says it all.
“DCC Ready” is nothing but marketing. Some manufacturers choose to interpret this as “plug and play” so you really just need to pop in a decoder and run. Others seem to think it means “Are you ready to isolate the motor, remove common frame-based headlight grounds, and mill out a section of the frame weight to fit a decoder into this engine?”
Precisely.
DCC with sound is standard…does anyone here have a report that they got a “DCC with sound” engine that didn’t have a speaker in it…say? Or maybe it came with a speaker, but it didn’t have the decoder? Would that be okay…just a marketing ploy?
No, I don’t think so. If we all understand what “DCC with sound” means, why is it acceptable to have “DCC ready” mean nothing at all in some cases? Why the double-standard? To me, it is unethical because it is duplicitous. Why should I have to resort to google to find out that DCC-ready means different things in different engines made by the same manufacturer when having to google “DCC with sound” would have a succinct and consistent meaning?
-Crandell
Two issues here. Ready for DCC, and ready for DCC with sound.
If you want DCC ready, all you have to do is look at the Atlas Silver Series line of diesels. Pop out the jumper plug and pop in the motor decoder. If you want DCC with sound ready, you can look at the Blue Line locomotives. Pop out the jumper plug, and install a motor decoder.
It is also relatively easy to install sound in an Atlas Silver series loco without removing the light board. I put a plug in sound/motor decoder into an Atlas Trainman diesel (mechanism same as a Silver Series) and installed the speaker into the cab with a little work. It was not that hard, and if a fumblefingers like myself can do it, so can’t everyone else. Probably took less time to install than it would have taken me to complain about the deviousness, deceit, and mis-representation of the various manufacturers.
The OP will be happy to learn he launched a needless discussion. [%-)]
-Crandell
I never said that the OP launched a needless discussion. I was merely expanding on my post. My comment on the deviousness, etc, was not directed at the OP, but was meant to be an opposing opinion to those who sort of implied that there was a plot, if you will, by some manufacturers to intentionally label something as DCC ready when that was not the case.
However, since I apparently am not supposed to do this, then the OP’s question was:
“Am I the only one who finds it this way?”
And my answer then will become “I don’t agree”.
Standard? Who’s standard. There are products out there with just DCC, products with DCC and sound, and products with 8 pin plugs with jumpers installed.
Sure, as manufcturers make the move to sound they will use the same frame/chassis for all versions, but come on now “DCC with sound is standard”, that’s a stretch.
For at least half of us, neither DCC or sound is “standard”.
Sheldon
My roster is mainly steamers and predominately Bachmann Spectrum engines. These engines when first released were marketed as DCC ready. Those engines had a plug installed in the tender. Later Bachmann installed DCC in some of their engines and marketed them as DCC on Board. Same engines except there was now a DCC decoder in place and the headlights were no longer bulbs but LED’s. There was no special provision in either the DCC Ready or DCC on Board for mounting speakers for those who would add sound to any of these engines.
Later Bachmann marketed DCC/SOUND steam engines. These of course had sound installed and there were perforations in the tender floors for the speakers.
It appears that the DCC on Board Spectrum steamers being produced are now paired with tenders that are perforated for speakers, should the owners opt to add sound later.
Given the number of Spectrum steamers Bachmann produces you can find “new” engines in a variety of options, DCC Ready, DCC on Board and DCC/SOUND on Board.
Atlas Silver locomotives are a nice example of a loco that uses the same chassis as its sound equiped brethren and thus have a location in which to place speaker (s). I would think that most manufacturers today who are making both sound and non sound would use the same chassis for each, making production quite a bit simpler.
One of my boys just picked up and Athearn R to R Dash 9. I has both an NMRA 8 pin socket and 9 pin plug. The 8 pin socket is set so high off the board that there was not room between it and the shell to even get an 8 pin plug installed. So much for DCC plug and play, I had to remove the socket and just soldered the decoder plug right to the board.