I have a digitrax set up with which I think I have two reversing loops tied together. I basically have a large oval with a diagonal between the oval. I am using a digitrax ar1 reversing loop unit on the system. The track is gapped on the diagonal track and the switches are also gapped as they are powered rail units. I can get the loco to get two thirds thru and then it stops. I talked to digitrax and they said to solder more leads to the one end and go past the gaps and try it. I did and got the loco to go a little further but not completelt thru the switch. I have tried changing plus and minus leads past the last reversing leads but to no avail. ANY IDEAS out there, Bob
Maybe a diagram would help. I’m a bit confused about “the switches are also gapped.”
For this kind of crossover, you need to gap both rails at both ends. The best place to do this is where the diagonal meets the turnout. The AR1 would then be wired to the diagonal only. You may have some extra gaps which are causing lost power or shorts when they are bridged.
When the loco stops, do you have power on the tracks, or is a circuit breaker cutting out?
Also, is this a DCC-equipped loco? A DC loco (running as Engine Zero) will not make it all the way through a DCC reverse loop. Just checking. This is one of those gotcha’s that people don’t usually think about.
Thanks for your reply, I have been messing with this problem for way too long. I have plenty of feeder wires all thru the diagonal. The first two wires from the ar1 are on the main line before the switch diverting the the track off the main into the diagonal which is gapped in the middle of the diagonal . The other gaps are across forward of the frogs on the entrance switch and the exit switch. the main line works great in both directions which appears to be two reversing loops. As I explained before the easy to describe the trach work is one large oval with a diagonal between the top and the bottom.
Your other question, yes this is a factory eqiipped DCC loco. Thanks again for your reply, Bob
This is how I have mine set-up
Tony’s PSREV is better than the AR1 since the AR! can not handle a load for anytime and is very slow to reset.
I see in my little mind This:
loop=G1a=======G1==== Crossover ===G2b================ loop
loop=========G1b==== Crossover ===G2=============G2a== loop
You have the crossover with (4) turnouts and a diamond OR a commercial Double Crossover?
Look at the “G” for gap you need power on BOTH sides if all (4) gaps.
G1 is loop no1 and requires a PSrev, G2 is loop #2 and requires another PSrev. The trick is the Crossover where the connect. The loop are powered BUT the Reverse is only required between G1 and G1a amd g2 and G2a and that needs to be the length of the longest train YOU may ever run.
Now the hard part when you go from G1b to G2b OR G1 to G2 they must be isolated (gapped) and you CAN NOT go from Reverse control (PSrev to PSREV) direct to another you MUST have a length (longest train again) before you hit the next reverse section.
www.wiringfordcc.com draws this and shows it better than me.
How is the other side of the diagonal wired (past the gap in the middle of the diagonal)? For a simple oval with a diagonal there is only one reversing loop, and there only needs to be four gaps. The gaps should be just past the turnouts going into the diagonal. It should only need one set of feeder wires. Get rid of the gaps in the middle of the diagonal, so it is basically all one big section of track. The more gaps one cuts the more complicated the wiring and hence the problems get.
What kind of turnouts are you using? If they are Peco, it could be that you are shorting across the diverging rails at the far end of the frogs. That would make the reverse/short senser do funny things, wouldn’t it?
Thanks for your reply, I tried what you said but there still seems to be a short somewhere. Let me describe the whole picture. The layout part that I am working with is done with the old tru scale switches mounted on roadbed and all soldered together. The switches have powered rails thus need to be gapped past the frogs across all four rails. Another problem is that on the diagonal is another switch heading off to a siding inside the loop which is also gapped in front of the frog, so on the diagonal are six gapps on the switches and two gaps on the long straight in the middle. When I close the gaps in the center on the straight section I get a short and the train stops. As I said before around the main line everything works fine. Maybe I have the reversing unit placed wrong. I have it power in just before the lead in switch and part way in on the diagonal past the number two switch that goes to the siding. To take this section apart is a monumental task and I have no other truscale switches to use and don’t know where to find them.
OK, here’s a picture of what I think you’ve got for your track:
I’ve put red marks across the track at the gaps needed for the reverse loop. The red arrow shows where you should attach the power wires from the reverser. I realize that you’ve got some other gapping requirements here, but basically everything between the two red gap marks should be powered from the reverser, and everything else should be powered from the main line.
Is the length of the diagonal long enough to accommodate the whole train?
I had a lighted business car on the tail end of one of my trains traversing a gapped reverse loop and, as Murphy’s Law would have it, the metal wheels on the car were bridging the gaps at the entrance of the loop just as the engines were exiting at the other end… a certain dead short!
I use the PS-Rev’s and they both operate flawlessly. Maybe even a metal wheel is enough to bridge the gap at the same time at both ends of your reverse loop??
Texas Zepher, thanks for your reply, I tried what you said but there still seems to be a short somewhere. Let me describe the whole pictuer. The layout part that I am working with is done with old truscale switches on mounted roadbed and all the tracks are souldered together. The switches have powered rails so need to be gapped past the frogs which they are and across all four rails. Another problem is on the diagonal there is a third switch that branches to a long siding, which is also gapped past the frog as the other switches. So on the diagonal you have the entrance switch the 2nd switch which goes to the siding then the straight section is gapped, then the exit switch back to the main line. When I tried to close the straight section gaps as you suggested I get a shor… Maybe I have the reversing unit placed wrong, but I think I did it like the instructions said. .to take this section apart and start over would be monumental and I can’t find any truscale switches to replace them. Any more suggestions. My phone number is 509 235 2977, thanks, Bob
Truscale, there is a name I haven’t heard in a long time. Do you know if they are the ones called “speed” switches? As I recall those required something special in the wiring. I’ll check my references to see what I can find.
How close is MisterBeasley’s picture to your situation?
P.S. Here is my version
click on the image to enlarge
The gaps are in red. Track power is blue and aqua. Blue for the inside rail and aqua for the outside. Power to track from the reverser unit power is yellow and magenta.
I don’t understand why both rails on the straight sections of the turnouts off the oval would be gapped. The outside rail on the oval is always the outside rail. Only the rail on the frog side should need a gap. The siding in the center (off the diagonal) should not need any gaps unless there are electrical feeders directly to that track. If that is the case then a frog side gap is needed and its power should come from the reversing loop module (magenta wire in my example).
I am guessing there is some complication somewhere else in the track plan that is causing more complex wiring.
To those following the thread: I called Bob on Saturday and we worked through the problem. The bottom line is that because of the hot frogs on the turnouts, there was a direct power feed to the siding coming off from the reversing diagonal. When that was changed over to the output of the auto-reversing unit everything worked as expected. Actually, at first we just disconnected it from all power to be certain it was the source of the problem.
What isn’t in the prior posts, is that someone from Bob’s local hobby store recommended he start cutting gaps all over the place before they totally understood the problem. Hence the need for more leads as Digitrax recommended in the orignal post. I am pretty upset with that LHS person. We filled in those gaps with solder or added extra feeds, but that is work that should not have been required, and just made diagnosing the real problem that much more complicated.