Before my loco goes in for repair I was wondering if anyone had experienced this issue before.
I have DCC/Sound equipped steam loco that wont respond at all to DCC commands. It will however run backwards at breakneck speed once track power is applied. I switched out the decoder - just in case it was an electrical issue with the decoder. No luck, it still runs the same.
Anyone have any ideas or insight on this.
switched the decoder with a differrent one? if it has a plugin board, could be that board problem. Otherwise try a reset of the decoder. on the programming track, see if you get a response back from the address first, then try a reset. if no success, time for repair.
Have to ask… Mfg?, Loco?, Scale?, factory or aftermarket decoder install?
Please list the following information, it is vital to diagnosing your problem:
Brand and specific model of DCC system where problem has occured.
Brand of locomotive
Custom install of DCC/Sound or Factory
Brand of decoder installed in locomotive or if factory installed, mfg model number off of package.
Any programming you have done to the locomotive, CV settings you have changed.
Is the locomotive new in box or did it have a previous owner.
Have you tried a factory reset of the locomotive?
Without this information we cannot help you.
Once track power is applied? Not in DCC. You had better re-write your post with some specific info about the type of system, brand of loco, identity of decoder etc. Without it, we can offer nothing but speculation.
Rich
Sorry folks, I dind’t think about it as a specific problem more of a general one.
The loco is a Broadway Limited T1 duplex PRR “as delivered”.
It is factory brand new.
The replacement decoder was factory brand new.
The installation was done by me and it is indeed a simple board with plug-in connectors.
The reset was tried using the “hard reset on the board” and via a power cab on the programming track CV8 set to 8. None of this worked. It still runs full speed in reverse on the layout and programming track.
My guess is his BLI T1? (edit) missed him by one minute!
What say you, LocoGuy? We want to help but our hands are tied…
Are you CERTAIN you didn’t get one of the plugs swapped? Here is a pic of a BLI board (this is a P3 though) and it is easy to reverse the two on the upper left.
Regards, Ed
Ed, YOU GOT IT !!! - The sad thing is my other T1 runs like a demon - smooth as silk and pulls 10 heavyweight Spectrum PRR coaches and never misses a beat. This is the third issue with the “as delivered” version. I love the look of the “as delivered” version - the side number board lights, the pilot with 3 portholes - but it’s gotta run too ;-))
ED, I photographed the interior of the tender to show all the wires conneting to the board before replacement - so I had a color photo to work from. Also, this issue appeared before I swapped the board. The board change was done in case the old board was making it run backwards due to a decoder problem. But the same thing was happening after the replacement.
Here’s mine for reference.
I can’t tell from your photo but is this plug in backward? It would be difficult to do, but just maybe?
Take a good look, the symptoms you describe sure sound like wires crossed going out to the jumper plug under the cab.
Good Luck, Ed
Loco,
Just for reference, too, I made this diagram some years ago. I think it is standard to all BLI locos:
Now, if that four pin connector was reversed it would only affect the outside four pins of the jumper. You have something shorting to the motor leads, gray & orange, possibly the blue + wire?
IF you can carefully apply DC from maybe a 9 volt battery to pin 2 and pin 6 7 on the locomotive it will tell you that the wiring is OK on the engine if the motor turns, then reverse the leads and run the engine in reverse.
So now you have to look at where wire 2 and 6 come into the tender and see why it is getting rogue voltage from somewhere. Did a connector pin get bent and is shorting another one?
I’m just throwing out ideas here…
[edit] the above sketch is for a SEVEN wire plug, our T1s have an EIGHT pin plug! The extra wire may be the number/class lights Smoke Unit .
Still, the outer four pins are railA/motor+ — motor—/railB
Ed
Ed,
I see where you are going with your ideas. I did check the leads/wires and plug pins for breaks, bends, etc. Everything looked fine to me - no expert here - but thinking about it there may be a posibility that there is a short inside the loco itself (the engine not the tender). So everything would look fine as far as the tender/wire harness but then those wires got inside the engine and we may have a problem there. The other thing is that even inside the engine there is a circuit board that supplies power to the different things like motor, headlight, side number board lights and the smoke generator - and who knows what else. So maybe somethings gone wrong in there.
I think this may be an issue for the pros to fix at BLI.
My original question was asked because sometimes you guys see the problem and go “Ah, you need to check the widget fits the doo-hicky” and its solved. I don’t know how many questions I have asked and you guys nail it right away. Then like Homer Simpson I say DOH! and its solved.
I still don’t think that we have enough information here. It may or may not be a short, and it may need to go back to BLI. But, a little more info may help to solve the problem.
In your initial post, you said that the loco would not respond at all to DCC commands but that it runs backwards at breakneck speeds once track power is applied, so you switched out the decoder. Explain what all you meant by that statement.
The loco would not respond at all to DCC commands. Can you address to loco?
It runs backwards at breakneck speeds once track power is applied. How are you applying power?
So, you switched out the decoder. With the decoder from a matching BLI steamer?
Rich
OK, brand new, first time running, right out of the box?
How and where did you get the factory brand new replacement decoder?
It runs full speed in reverse on the programming track???
Rich
Rich,
Im try to put everything down here. Originally the loco was sent in for repair (about a two months ago - got it back about 2 weeks ago). I placed the loco on the programming track to try it out. The loco ran real smooth in forward and reverse (speed step 1). However, I did not notice any sound - so I checked the functions for the bell/whistle - nothing worked.
My first thought was - reset the decoder to see if I can get any sound. So I set CV8 to 8. Still no sound. So I removed the cover from the decoder (tender top) and did a reset with power applied to the track but the speed was at ZERO. The train then backed off the test track and stopped. I tried the loco on the layout - just in case I was missing something on the programming track - but as soon as the power was applied - still speed at ZERO it shot around the layout in reverse.
I spoke to the support people at BLI and they said it may be a decoder issue. I told them I could swap it out if they sent me a replacement. I got the replacement a few days ago and installed it. I then put the loco on the programming track but before I applied power I held the loco in place so it would not go backward off the track. As soon as power was applied - still at speed ZERO it DID try to go backward. Whilst holding the loco in place it tried to program the CV8 to 8 but of course got no response as it does not recognise the DCC commands. I also tried a hard reset using the button while holding the train in place as it wanted to go backward and still no response.
It’s as if the loco (the engine portion with the motor) is “STUCK” in reverse and no DCC commands get through or are being ignored.
It’s really difficult to test anything or reset stuff while the loco just wants to take off in reverse even at speed step zero.
If the replacement decoder exhibited the same fault as the original decoder, then it is not
Couple of questions:
Did you try the holding the button then apply power while continuing to hold the button reset option?
Also what DCC system are you using?
Do you have an ohm meter, LocoGuy?
This is beginning to sound like one of the motor wires is pinched between the boiler and the frame when the boiler was screwed down. It has happened to me but I caught it before I put the engine on the layout.
This can also toast the decoder by feeding rail voltage back to the motor outputs!
Looking at the connector under the cab floor, the two pins just inside of the outer pins (so #2 and #7) are the motor leads from the decoder.
If you set your meter to ohms Ω and alternately touch one probe to the left wheel and right wheel and the frame, then the other test probe to those two pins you should not see the needle of the meter move (or beep if you hav a continuity tester). IF you have continuity between the frame and either of those two pins then there is a pinched wire or something else grounding the motor lead to the frame.
Why not try to remove the boiler and take a look?
The BLI wiring is very soft and flexible and it takes a bit of jiggling to get it all back in place before you put the boiler back on. I cut thin strips of Kapton tape to help hold the wiring in place.
Regards, Ed
For those who missed it, Loco_Guy in his second post wrote he did a reset with his Power Cab on the program track. I presume is Dcc system is then a NCE Power Cab.
Thanks for all the help with this issue guys - but I am thinking that this is the third time this loco has gone “wonky” on me and I think BLI needs to resolve it. They have sent me a pre-paid return label with an RA number - so it’s going back to the shop.
I will see what the “tech” report says when I get it back from BLI and post the details here in case it will help somebody else who has a similar problem.
A note to previous posters:
jalajoie: correct it was on the programming track with power applied via the power cab. My programming track is not really a “programming track” as you experts would know it. Its just a couple of sections of track with the power cab connected to it. I call it the programming track because I can only change CV’s using the power cab on that bit of track. The other four lines on the layout (3 main 1 branch) are powered by Bachmann e-z command controllers. The bachmann controllers are pretty basic - but due to BLI’s function key mapping I can put all the functions I want on the bachmann controller - which makes them much more useful and fun.