I will try hard not to start another firestorm. I don’t need to know which system sucks. (Though, I would be interested in why people are happy with what they are using.)
I am in midst of deciding which DCC system to invest in. I am looking at the entry systems from NCE and Digitrax. My primary concern with the NCE Power Cab is that everything is contained in the cab. First, if one component fails, you have to replace the whole unit. Likewise there is no way to upgrade a single component. My second concern is doesn’t it mean that the cab must always be connected. No moving the cab from one station to another while the trains are operating. Finally, how do you add a second cab to the system?
With Digitrax, I am looking at the Zephyr Xtra. Same concern here–everything in one case. Also, how are additional cab supported? Can I have a cab bus or do they need to be attached to the unit?
I am really thinking of this as an investment. I want something that will grow with me over time. If the best option is to wait and save my pennies to get something more than an entry model, I am willing to do that.
I’m a Digitrax user. I cannot answer your NCE questions. Digitrax can add a second, or third, or 10th throttle by plugging it into Loconet via a UP5, or into the command station. With the addition of a UR92, digital throttles can be wirelessly connected. There are many more things that can be easily connected as your layout or goals grow. Upgradability is Digitrax’ biggest advantage.
Yes, the Power Cab is the command station, booster, and throttle all rolled-up-into-one. However, if one component fails, it does not necessitate tossing out the entire unit. In most cases the unit can be sent back to NCE to repair a damaged component(s) then shipped back to you.
For DCC systems, the only thing that generally needs upgrading is the OS. This is as easy as popping the back off the enclosure, replacing the old eprom with a new one, then closing it back up again. I currently have the V1.28C chip in my Power Cab and am waiting to receive the V1.65 chip in the mail from NCE. The whole procedure will probably take me ~5 minutes to complete.
The Power Cab comes with a 7’ RJ12 cable. While you must remain plugged into the PCP panel, that still gives you a 14’ “tethered” range to walk around. If you want to follow your train around the layout, the easiest solution is to buy an additional throttle. This can be plugged into the RIGHT connector port of the PCP panel or into a UTP panel that is daisy-chained from the back of the PCP panel.
With an extra throttle, you can unplug and plug to your hearts content. The only requirements that you need for adding an extra throttle is the throttle itself and giving it a cab address different from the Power Cab (usually “2”).
In order to disconnect the Power Cab so that it doesn’t shut down the layout, you would need to purchase the
NCE will keep your PowerCab going unless you somehow figure out a way to physically destroy it. In practice, I’ve not heard any big issues with the configuration. Tom covered the ways that it can be set-up to walkaround.
I can’t help with Digitrax, but will say something more about choosing in a moment.
However, this is a place to put in a plug for finding a vendor who you find gives you customer support you’re comfortable with. You can learn DCC well enough on your own OR you find a good shop that will lead you until you get comfortable (which for a lot of people is never, so that’s why’s you want to be able to feel comfortable calling them up in six months.)
I would caution that there’s something you really should decide on and that is which operating system you’re comfortable with. In the long run, if you go for what seems like an easy upgrade path now or because it’s cheaper, then end up hating the operating system – well, lots of folks have been there, done that. It’s a false economy in DCC to choose based on price, within reason of course, and not based on what YOU are comfortable with using.
That’s not true for Digitrax. The only firmware upgrade the DCS100 command station has ever needed was when the NMRA changed their spec from 9 functions to 12. And Digitrax “future-proofed” that firmware upgrade by making those additional function commands pass-through. There wasn’t a further command station upgrade needed to allow 28 functions.
Also, most recent Digitrax products (Zephyr, DT402 throttles, UR92 radio receiver panels, PR3) are user-upgradeable via no-cost firmware downloads from Digitrax.
No opening the cases or waiting for an eeprom that costs $35 because it has one new feature in addition to a bunch of bug fixes that should be free.
You asked why I like the system I have ( NCE Power Cab). I have had the system for over 6 years and have upgraded to a Smart booster (SB3a). I did have to change the Chip in the throtte once when I upgraded to the SB3a booster.
The system has worked flawlessly all these years. I love the ease of how the system operates.
Very user friendly!!
The Power Cab will support a second throttle via use the second port on the panel.
Read the manuals of the systems you are looking at and see how you can understand the instructions.
I have NCE at home. We run Digitrax at out club. I like NCE better because it is more intuitive to use, the buttons on the throttles are larger, and the instructions are better. Both systems have a good upgrade path. If you are going to have a medium to large model railroad and you are thinking about operations with friends, the NCE 5 amp Power Pro system will be easier to set up than starting with a smaller system and then adding components to it to make it a larger system.
For a little extra money, you can use the Digitrax signal system with your NCE system, if you get that far. Here is a link for that if you are curious:
I started with a Zephyr way back, and it’s still the heart of my system, but I’ve added on quite a bit over the years as my layout grew. The technical details of Loconet are what convinved me, when I was looking at systems. It just does things that none of the others can do.
Yup, already been following that one. (Thus my initial comment about not wanting to start a firestorm.) Also, have read http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/188495.aspx. What I have determined so far is the following:
Both NCE and Digitrax make good systems.
Both systems are upgradable.
If possible, it is best to try before you buy.
Many are fiercely passionate about their selection.
Asking the qustion almost seems like walking into an IT shop and asking, “Which is better, Linix or Windows?” I think I have made my decision, though I am not ready to make it public.
Bottom line: Whatever system best meets your needs and goals is the best system for you.
To reiterate - if it’s at all possible to try out a system firsthand, take full advantage of it. It’ll answer a number of questions…and probably raise a few more you haven’t even thought of yet.
The PowerCab upgrade may be $25, but the 2007 eprom for the PH-Pro is $35. From the NCE Web site:
Update kits packaged for retail sale are available to dealers. Kits include EPROM, installation instructions and system manual.MSRP $34.95
And yes, it has bug fixes. Also from the NCE Web site:
Fixes for bugs in the Dec 21, 2004 version of system software: 1. The AIU broadcast mode was always on regardless of the BROADCAST ENABLE setting in the SET CMD STA menu. 2. OPS programming packets may have had intervening speed or function packets. This resulted in the inability to program some CVs in sound decoders on the main. 3. Function group 2 commands sent to the consist address did not have bit 4 set resulting in a function group 3 command being sent. The proper commands for F5-F8 are now sent to consists. Function commands to lead, rear and individual locomotives were always sent correctly. 4. The button works again. When (the default value of the ProCab OPTION button) is pressed the current loco’s speed is set to zero. This was broken in the 2004 version. Apparently no one noticed
Wow, Steve. You had to go all the way back to 2004 of the ProCab…just to find something negative about the Power Cab, which wasn’t even out until early 2006??? Impressive.
FYI: The upgrade chip for the Power Cab (V1.28 to V1.65) is $25. The new Power Cab already comes with the new V1.65 chip, so no extra cost there. Good for Digitrax for making their updates free and/or a convenient download for users. $25 doesn’t break my piggy bank; nor is 5 minutes of my time to make the upgrade an inconvenience.
And thanks for caring enough to list the same things that I enjoy about my Power Cab that you enjoy about your Digitrax system. Caring is nice, isn’t it?
My usual input to these discussions is that all of the current large five or six suppliers to the market make very good, dependable, and useful DCC systems. A person with a modicum of intellect should be able to have any one of them handed to him as a complete system, with instructions, and be enjoying his unique/quirky/non-intuitive/ergonomic nightmare system within about…oh…an hour.
They all work. They all work well. They all vary to some degree or another in appearance. They all allow a unique throughput of amperage and voltage. They all need a power supply or have one included. The worst, if I could be permitted a one-time use of that word, is one I tried and rejected in seconds, and that is the original release of the EZ-Command from Bachmann. To this day I don’t know who with clout at that place gave it a thumbs up for release. I was so disappointed that I haven’t even kept up to any upgrades or development of it.
The fact is that, if YOU were handed a system that met your power needs, you would soon be a fan of it.
The OP’s question (me) was not, “Which system should I choose?” but some specific questions about the specific systems. The intent was to assist in the personal selection of a system, and the ownership of that decision.
I’m not a DCC user myself, only DC… But I HAVE been following this thread and you did receive a lot more, then what your question was originally… But you’ll have to admit, that you yourself, said,I’M LIKE A SPONGE’’
Tom, I was responding to YOUR general statement, “For DCC systems, the only thing that generally needs upgrading is the OS”, which I quoted in my reply. Although you went on to describe your PowerCab update, there are certainly other “DCC systems” that a blanket statement like that would seem to apply to, and nothing in that opening statement of yours ruled any of them out.
With that in mind, and if you actually read the NCE material I quoted, you’d know those were bugs IN the 2004 PH-Pro eprom that were finally fixed BY the 2007 eprom, which sells for $35 and is the most current one NCE has issued for the PH-Pro.
Whether or not the $25 or even $35 will break your bank, or if five minutes will destroy your schedule, was never the question, although in my opinion bug fixes should be free.
It was your blanket statement that implied that all DCC systems generally need OS (actually firmware) upgrades, and your later insistence that the NCE eproms ONLY “add a few more features” and do NOT include bug fixes.