I went to my LHS yesterday and discussed different DCC units with the owner. What I’m wanting to do is to eventually have 3 throttles so my two boys and myself can each run a throttle for our own trains. I was told that this is not possible if I use a PA unit or the Digitrax Zephyr unit. The only what to have 3 throttles was to go up to a Digitrax Empire and purchase the utility throttles. I know you can have a 2nd throttle on the Zephyr by using a DC powerpac, but what about a 3rd? I know you can have a 2nd controller on the PA but again, what about a 3rd? Price is a factor but I don’t what to waste my money on a unit that can’t handle 3 controllers. [banghead]
Hi,
Your LHS owner is incorrect! - I have a Zephyr to which I’ve added a UT4, a UR91 radio receiver and a DT400R for a total of 3 throttles - More could be added if desired. Some further comments:
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The Zephyr comes with two ‘jump ports’ that allow you to plug in (up to) two standard DC throttles and use these as simple utility throttles - You can’t turn functions on and off from 'em, but if you have anyy old DC supplies around it’s a cost effective solution. [There are also some ckt diagrams to roll your own in various places.]
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I initially thought “I don’t need no stinkin’ radio thottle!”, and went and got a UT4 and UP5 panel into which it plugs - It works great, but,
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I then got the DT400R and the UR91 - Once you’ve used radio you’ll never go back! - This throttle is a thing of beauty and were I to do it again I’d go radio with the radio version of the UT4 utility throttle…
The operators skill level (age?) would probably determine the choice here. Finally, once you have walk-around capability (tethered or not) all your operators will want to use it rather than the built in Zephyr throttle - It’s just nicer IMHO.
HTH,
Ian
Wow, you need to consider a different LHS as this guy may be why there are fewer MRR’s in your area. Go to Tony’s train exchange and venture into DCC system comparisons and you will see that every system will support multiple throttles( cabs). That guy fires me up. The Zepher is successfull because you can hook up your old pack ( up to 2) and use them as indipendent throttles. A very good alternative until you can afford or decide to expand to walk around tethered throttles.
Dcc systems are limited by the power output.
I regularly use 2 DT400 throttles with my Zephyr, you just plug them into the back. The LHS dude was trying to get you to spend more money then you need to. Stay away from morons like that.
Well, there is a reason why the big unit may be a better (possibly even necessary) purchase - Power requirements.
Zephyr - 2.5amps max
Super Chief - 5 amps max
Plus, if you’re actually thinking about 2xDT400s you get one of 'em with the chief, and by the time you’ve added another (plus the ur91 if you want radio) etc to the Zephyr street prices are getting similar between the two options.
Nevertheless, your LHS owner still sucks 
Cheers,
Ian
Oops, one more thing before I go and play with grade crossings:
Upon rereading your original post, I noticed you said he was pushing the Empire Builder - Don’t do it!
- Can only address F0-F8 (If you ever want sound, you’re going to need F0-F12)
- “Write only” decoder programming - The Zephyr & Chief have a seperate ‘read & write’ output which makes programming much easier IMCO.
- A few other features that may or may not be significant to you (route programming etc).
So, he may have been hoping to dispose of his last Empire Builder on you!
Cheers,
Ian
Wrong on both counts. What hobby store is this. Might want to put out a warning for others.
Yes, there are two “jump” ports on the Zephyr.
yes, see the item #4 under “Prodigy Advance Power Supply and Base Unit” on page 1 of:http://www.modelrectifier.com/resources/trainSound/prodigyinfo/1406_web_diagrams.pdf
WRONG! I have 3 throttles on my zephyr all the time. At one time I had 5. All you need is those panels (cant remember what theyre called). Connect it up thrpugh loconet and your good to go. The PA can support 3 throttles in theory. But Having used a PA with 3 throttles, they tend to “fight” over the trains and its almost impossible to keep things running like you want.
will i be able to use sound with the zephyr and then just buy the two other throttles and possible a power booster do i have this correct
I have the PA, and have had 3 throttles hooked up to it with no problems. Unlike JPM335 I had no issue with the trains running when all 3 throttles are in use.
The PA can handle 3 full function throttles right from the base station. You can also choose to how many of them are “Masters” (ie full prgramming abilities) The PA gives you 20 functions. More than enough to handle any sound and light functions your loco might have. Possibly JPM335 didn’t set the “number of throttles” limit on the base station when he was having trouble. Don’t know but mine works just fine.
Kind of - Be aware that:
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The Zephyr itself only does F0-F8 (see my earlier post) and you need the F9-F12 to do sound (relatively) easily.
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However, if you add a UR91 and either a UT4(R) and/or DT400(R) you gain access to these functions on those throttles (not the Zephyr itself though.)
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Be aware that the UP5 panel does not currently support F9-F12 so the seemingly cheaper option of no radio and the UP5 will not do sound either.
So, my advice if you think you’re going to want sound (and you will!) combined with the 3 independent throttles is to look carefully at the Super Chief.
Cheers,
Ian
anyone else?
just to make it completely clear … your LHS was wrong
the zephyr can have it’s built in throttle plus 2 jump throttles (DC throttles) and it can have loconet throttles like the DT400 or UT4 . 10 throttles max , extension panels needed if you have more than 2 loconet throttles
the PA can have 2 throttles in addition to the one it comes with , and can add more if you use extension panels . 99 throttles max
the real limitation is not the number of throttles but the number of trains that can be run with a starter system . either system can have a power booster added to run more trains
That’s not correct at all!
The UP5 is a LocoNet expansion device, and is simply the wired equivalent of the UR91. Functionally, they are the same in that they both serve to “connect” the throttles to the LocoNet.
So, they both “support” any LocoNet command you send through them, including (but certainly not limited to) ALL the commands from the URx and DTxxx series of throttles.
Again, the only difference is that the UR91 can do it wirelessly, and the UP5 is wired. There is NO difference whatsoever in which throttle commands they can pass through to the command station.
HTH,
Steve
Yes, you can use sound. Depending on the specific sound unit you may not have direct access to some of the lesser used sounds. The major ones on the low functions like whistle F2, bell F1, couplers F3, dynamic brakes F4 etc. are easily usable from the Zephyr. I don’t even know what sounds are on the higher functions because I don’t use them. I have no need for sounds like “close the cab door”.
My profuse apologies - You are correct. [I confused the UR90, which some say has the issue, with the UP5 which you described beautifully above ]
thanks for the correction!
Ian,
No apology necessary!
I based my previous reply on what I knew about the UP5, but to be honest I wasn’t aware of the UR90 issue. Your post had me thinking, though, so I did some checking (which I should have done before I replied!)
Anyway, I found that while the UR91 doesn’t seem to have any function restrictions, the UR90 apparently has older firmware with a 4-byte restriction. This restriction does in fact limit the UR90 to F0-F8, which is something I never knew before!
To be honest, I personally don’t think it’s that big of a deal (F37 - The conductor blowing his nose? [:D]), but for someone who wants all the bells and whistles (pun intended), it’s certainly a consideration.
So my thanks to you, for helping me learn something I wasn’t aware of!
Steve
ROFL. That’s about right. I’m a big fan of sound, and always willing to say so. But even I’m not sure just how “necessary” even up to F12 really is… some of them start to get a bit obscure for my taste. I’m glad my system has them, and I do use them occasionally (but even 99% of that usage is 'playing with a new loco). Regardless, it’s nice that they are there for the detail-philes.
In general, I hate to see systems being touted for “must-have” characteristics that most folks won’t use much or at all. Computers much the same thing - “Oh, you must have a 250gb hard drive or the Jones’ will snicker…” That ignoring the fact that your current computer has a 100gb hard drive that’s only 20% full…
I’m willing to admit there are plenty of things in life I didn’t “need” but used extensively once I had them, even to the point of them becoming “givens”… (I didn’t have a microwave until the late 90’s, now wouldn’t be without)… But for me, sound functions don’t fall into that. I do have them, and still rarely use them.
CVP has a two cab fixed console and an optional remote or radio for about the same bang for bucks as other DCC. From what I hear its a very good system without the need for adding other stuff down the line.