DCC yes or no?

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

I might be a bit early with this question because my layout is still in the planning stages but I should probably start learning more about DCC and decide if I want it or stick with DC.

The layout I’m planning is going to be 24-30" x 96" with a continous loop and 1 or 2 switching areas. I am familiar with DC and its capabilities (or lack thereof) but I really know nothing about DCC. Do I need it on a small layout? What are the capabilities? Do I need seperate power for lighting on the layout? Are some brands better than others? Which model would give me the most bang for my buck? I’m going to be modeling N scale. I own 2 DC locomotives, is it realistic to think I can add decoders or am I better off buying different locos? I’m going to have lots of questions, and this is just scratching the surface.

2

MJP,

Even with a small layout (e.g. 4 x 8’ or <), I think DCC is more advantageous than DC because you don’t need to have separate blocks to operate two (or more) locomotives independently. They can be on the same track moving in opposite directions…or one can be on the loop while another is in the yard switching cars. And this can all be done with a very simple wiring scheme.

With N-scale sound is possible but it’s more challenging to install. Lighting effects with DCC can also make operation more realistic.

How old are your N-scale locomotives? Almost any DC locomotive can be converted to DCC. However, some are more easily done than others.

It may be advanteous for you to read up on DCC. Kalmbach makes a couple of good starter books. Although somewhat dated, Lionel Strang’s DCC Made Easy is a very good primer about DCC. The author has a knack for putting complicated concepts into very understandable terms.

Tom

3

For a small layout, I’m not so sure you do need DCC. There are long term respected forum members, who have big layouts, and don’t think they need DCC. But back to your situation;

If you are only running one train at a time, even if it’s consisted, DCC is not an advantage.

These days, some DC locos have sound. Not as much or many choices of horns, engines as DCC, but there is sound. Not everyone likes sound. I like the sound and the variety of options in DCC. But do you need/want it?

To independently control two different locos in DC, the wiring gets more complicated. That’s called cab control and you need blocks, separate segments of track that can be controlled by one controller or the other. That takes more physical wiring than DCC.

Here is where DCC shines. DC controls the tracks, DCC controls engines. You can tell multiple locos to do different things, all at the same time. However it’s a bit like juggling. How many balls can you keep in the air beyond two? Whatever that number is, you don’t need any extra wiring for DCC.

Lighting and turnout control generally need a separate power source for DCC.

DCC engine conversion; It can be done. Lots of Youtube videos Nscale is a little different than HO. If you need to make room for speakers, that is a problem. Both can be fiddly and if you don’t have soldering skill or are poor at it, it can be a problem. The electrical geeks love it.

Except for the DCS system, generally everyone is happy with their brand. Here is where the discussion takes on religious overtones. I’m not going there. The 3 major starter systems in the US all have a different feel but all get the job done.

If you don’t have a retail train store or local club, watch a bunch of youtube videos and see how they fit in your hand and work.

4

With the size of your layout, DCC would probally be a better choice, but you cannot go wrong with DC either. It’s your layout, after all.

5

OK, I’m a DC guy, but I have lots of experiance with DCC on many layouts of friends in the hobby.

In my opinion in comes down mainly to one thing - Do you like/want sound?

If the answer is yes, you want DCC, don’t think about it any more, just do it.

If, like me, you don’t care for sound, for any of a number of reasons, than DCC may not be that important.

I use a complex version of DC with signaling, detection, CTC, ATC, walk around wireless radio throttles, and more. DCC would actually only ad a few features to my operation, and would make some of my features more complex to impliment.

Signaling and CTC are much more important to me than sound or the other features DCC would ad.

For me, onboard sound is too low in sound quality and very annoying after a very short time.

Everyone is different on the sound issue - but I strongly suggest you listen and learn, and choose DCC if you like sound.

Sheldon

6

Go with DCC. A starter set from any of the major systems will probably be more than enough for your needs. And then you will expand your layout and the DCC system you choose will be easily expandable if necessary.

7

There is no yes or no. Like Sheldon said, if you want sound go for it.

I stated my layout in 2010? I think, and had nothing with DCC, and everything was DC, and had a MRC 2500 that powered my last sprawled out plywood central, so I went with DC, BUT, I wired it so I could easily switch over to DCC, if and when the time come.

I wired it for cab control, 2 cabs, but I didn’t use the COMMON wire method, I ran a bus wires, used feeders, and insulated BOTH rails. I set it up into 8 blocks.

Now I could change to DCC if the opertunity came, OR go back to DC if I wanted.

I was happy with DC, all my locos, which was a lot of Athearn and a couple of Atlas, were all DC.

Then the opertunity came. I found a list of stuff on Craigs List, of all places, the ad just posted, which included everything this guy had collected, for his “dream layout”.

2 big boxes of Walthers Corner stone buildings, a stack of the newest run Athearn SD40-2’s, and a brand new, still in the box, unwrapped, Digitrax Super Empire Builder, with a receipt dated November, 2005.

I bought it all for UNDER $300, he helped me load it up, and off I went. His job required a move to another city, and he decided to get rid of it all.

I finished my track work, and keep the layout build going, but it took 2 years before I used the DCC.

If I hadn’t come across the Craigs List ad, I’d still be using DC, and I’d be happy.

For sound effects, I bought an MRC Sound Symphony, and I still use that once in a while.

Sound doesn’t impress me that much. On a small layout, or even a somewhat medium size layout, you hear the diesel all the way around the lay out.

Yes, you can turn it off, but then what’s the point?

My lay out is small, I only run one, maybe two locos at one time, and thats very seldom. I’ll run a main line train, then I might park it in my hidden track areas, and run the local switch

8

I have a wireless DCC system and it is just magic for the kids (and me) when I roll a loco out of the Roundhouse on to the turntable, make the table turn and send the loco on its way without ever getting up out of my Captains chair.

9

I get that, but it would not work for me.

I have operated DCC layouts with DCC controlled turnouts and accessories and found it very cumbersome to try and remember the necessary steps to operate those accessories while also operating the train.

I have heard a number of avid DCC users on this forum also say they dislike using the DCC throttle to control turnouts or other accessories.

Personally, I have a hard time remembering all those multi button sequences to operate tunouts with the Digitrax throttle.

Long before DCC, I thought it would be really cool to operate the turnouts from a handheld throttle and tried to develope such a system for a small layout I was planning.

It is just a little ironic that now we can do it, and many people find it not so effective.

I set up whole routes thru interlockings with the push of one button that then lights up on a track diagram to indicate the route, rather than pushing 5 buttons? That button is redundantly present on both a local tower panel and the dispatchers panel.

So I can sit in my Captain’s chair at the CTC panel, set up routes, control trains, see where the trains are with detection, and know that they will stop automaticly if the route is not correctly set. Mostly with technology that Bruce Chubb and Ed Ravenscroft were using in 1965.

I’m not being anti DCC here, I have already suggested OP should strongly consider DCC.

The point remains that everyone’s goals are different, and can at times be best met in different ways.

Sheldon

10

.

There are three major reasons I do not use DCC.

.

  1. Like you, I am very comfortable with DC.

  2. Like Sheldon, I do not like sound.

  3. I have a collection of brass locomotives that I do not want to convert to DCC.

.

It is a personal decision, there is no yes or no right answer.

.

What works for me might not be for you.

.

-Kevin

.

11

You have two locomotives. You have a simple oval of track, maybe a siding or spur. You power up the tracks and dial up the voltage. Both locomotives move.

That’s simple DC.

You decide you don’t want both locomotives moving. Now you will need to use a switch of some kind to isolate at least part of your track system from power so that the locomotive in it won’t move.

That’s DC.

You turn one of the locomotives around and replace it on the rails. You power up the rails and dial up voltage. Both locomotives still move, but in the same direction. Turning one of them doesn’t matter because when turning it around you present the motor with turned voltage…meaning you’ve negated the turning around part.

That’s DC.

Or, you’ll need a more sophisticated device with some kind of logic working in it to help you to control sections of the track to reverse polarity so that the two locomotives will actually move separately, even at different speeds, and in opposite directions around your oval.

That’s DC.

If you want two steamers or diesels to move toward each other and meet at their front pilots, touching couplers, there will have to be a gap in the rails immediately between both locos.

That’s DC.

What is different with DCC?

You still need some gaps, but they would be for reversing or isolating tracks, just like in DC. In both cases, if you just want to ‘park’ a loco and not play with it for a while, and you don’t want it making sounds or using up voltage, you isolate it electrically. You still need that switch.

However, if you don’t want to break up the tracks into discrete electrical districts with switches and logic devices, then DCC permits that, with about the same costs. You can have those two diesels kiss each other at their pilot couplers and you don’t need to gap the rails between them to accomp

12

You and me both, I can’t even remember all the positions on the turntable as I don’t operate it often enough, I employ a rather archaic system of pencil and paper to remember.[(-D]

I really don’t think I would use DCC to control switches or anything else on the layout, tough if I run out of things to do on the layout, I would put in a dual system of being able to throw switches by DCC or push button just because I can.[oX)]

13

If you are not already invested in equipment for DC (e.g. command station) or have a bunch of engines that you want to run and do not want to go through the trouble to convert, I wouldn’t even think about DC if I were you.

The nice thing is you don’t really need to know anything about DCC to start with DCC and enjoy the additional functionality. You can switch between 5 engines on your tracks and switch between them as you please, independent of where on the track they sit. You can have sound or no sound, you choose (but you have the option). As you want to expand you will learn.

In particular for a small layout, I would choose DCC, it keeps your wiring incredibly simple for multiple engine operation. Whatever anyone might say, there is no easier way than DCC to operate multiple engines on the same track.

Also, just because you operate your trains on DCC does not mean you need to switch your turnouts with DCC, like the last poster mentioned.

14

My at home layout is DC, with 3 different cabs, many blocks, on rotary switches and wireless throttles. Started the layout 16 years ago.

Our club lauput is DCC, (Digitrax) and is much more user friendly for new operators. The club turnouts are 90% hand thrown pecos, also user friendly.

If I was starting with no equipment, and knowing what I know now, I would go DCC.

Dave

15

My layout is essentially DC started in 1988. I went DCC in 2006 with MRC Prodigy Advance². My reason for going DCC was for sound. My layout is small and wasn’t designed or built for multi train operation.

I have come to like the function portion of DCC. I like the ability to turn on and off the lighting in my passenger cars using F4 and I even have a directional backup light in my streamlined observation car using a function only decoder.

I use a relay to switch the rail power from my DC power pack to the Prodigy and run Dual Mode. The relay coil is connected to the DC power pack accessory power so that when it is on and I’m running in DC Mode the rails are automatically connected to the DC power. That way DCC and DC are never connected to the rails at the same time.

I normally operate in DC Mode for freight and DCC Mode for passenger Service. I have one WOW Sound Decoder in a Cab Forward and it is by far the best and most realistic sound I have on my layout. Most of the diesels I run are EMD E7s so they have the EMD 567 sound decoders and sound very good.

16

How big is this oval? Because my locomotives are generally attached to 10 or 20 feet of rolling stock…

And I only “operate” one train at a time. My isolated sections of track are typically longer than my trains…

Now if another operator is running another train - well the prototype railroads go to great trouble to avoid having two trains try to occupy the same space at the same time - my signal blocks and CTC help me do the same. The dispatcher controls the trackage available so that trains don’t crash…

Or, for display operations, different trains are on different isolated routes, because I can’t run four trains at once, but my layout can.

Moving or not, won’t that other loco be in the way on a small oval?

Yes, that makes it very easy to hook up and unhook my ABBA diesel lashups without pushing a dozen buttons.

[quote user=“selector”]

Or, you’ll need a more sophisticated device with some kind of logic working in it to help you to control sections of th

17

[quote user=“mbinsewi”]

There is no yes or no. Like Sheldon said, if you want sound go for it.

I stated my layout in 2010? I think, and had nothing with DCC, and everything was DC, and had a MRC 2500 that powered my last sprawled out plywood central, so I went with DC, BUT, I wired it so I could easily switch over to DCC, if and when the time come.

I wired it for cab control, 2 cabs, but I didn’t use the COMMON wire method, I ran a bus wires, used feeders, and insulated BOTH rails. I set it up into 8 blocks.

Now I could change to DCC if the opertunity came, OR go back to DC if I wanted.

I was happy with DC, all my locos, which was a lot of Athearn and a couple of Atlas, were all DC.

Then the opertunity came. I found a list of stuff on Craigs List, of all places, the ad just posted, which included everything this guy had collected, for his “dream layout”.

2 big boxes of Walthers Corner stone buildings, a stack of the newest run Athearn SD40-2’s, and a brand new, still in the box, unwrapped, Digitrax Super Empire Builder, with a receipt dated November, 2005.

I bought it all for UNDER $300, he helped me load it up, and off I went. His job required a move to another city, and he decided to get rid of it all.

I finished my track work, and keep the layout build going, but it took 2 years before I used the DCC.

If I hadn’t come across the Craigs List ad, I’d still be using DC, and I’d be happy.

For sound effects, I bought an MRC Sound Symphony, and I still use that once in a while.

Sound doesn’t impress me that much. On a small layout, or even a somewhat medium size layout, you hear the diesel all the way around the lay out.

Yes, you can turn it off, but then what’s the point?

My lay out is small, I only run one, maybe two locos at one time, and thats very seldom. I’ll run a main line train, then I might park it in my hi

18

[quote user=“MJPinSEWI”]

mbinsewi

There is no yes or no. Like Sheldon said, if you want sound go for it.

I stated my layout in 2010? I think, and had nothing with DCC, and everything was DC, and had a MRC 2500 that powered my last sprawled out plywood central, so I went with DC, BUT, I wired it so I could easily switch over to DCC, if and when the time come.

I wired it for cab control, 2 cabs, but I didn’t use the COMMON wire method, I ran a bus wires, used feeders, and insulated BOTH rails. I set it up into 8 blocks.

Now I could change to DCC if the opertunity came, OR go back to DC if I wanted.

I was happy with DC, all my locos, which was a lot of Athearn and a couple of Atlas, were all DC.

Then the opertunity came. I found a list of stuff on Craigs List, of all places, the ad just posted, which included everything this guy had collected, for his “dream layout”.

2 big boxes of Walthers Corner stone buildings, a stack of the newest run Athearn SD40-2’s, and a brand new, still in the box, unwrapped, Digitrax Super Empire Builder, with a receipt dated November, 2005.

I bought it all for UNDER $300, he helped me load it up, and off I went. His job required a move to another city, and he decided to get rid of it all.

I finished my track work, and keep the layout build going, but it took 2 years before I used the DCC.

If I hadn’t come across the Craigs List ad, I’d still be using DC, and I’d be happy.

For sound effects, I bought an MRC Sound Symphony, and I still use that once in a while.

Sound doesn’t impress me that much. On a small layout, or even a somewhat medium size layout, you hear the diesel all the way around the lay out.

Yes, you can turn it off, but then what’s the point?

My

19

Ok, a quick reply. I’ve been an active model railroader since 1980. I started with a 4x7 and expanded it and expanded and expanded… until it is the size it is now. It was setup with switches to turn tracks on and off and to control track switches by remote control. All of this was normal DC.

Several years ago, I decided that I might want to try DCC. I bought a DCC starter pack and put it on the shelf for a future date. After a couple of years, I got it out and began to hook it up. It went pretty well with a couple of problems. I converted a couple of locos to run with DCC and tried it.

I liked it! I converted two more locos and bought three new ones set up for DCC. I’ve never looked back. I do not use sound and I still use my DC on/off switches and switch control. I do not need to use DCC to control everything. Yes, I occasionally run two locomotive at one with one running and anoher switching, but it is still the DC set up modified.

Do I think that you need on/off switches to control yard sittings? Yes. Have I gotten rid of excess locos that I didn’t want to convert? Yes. Am I happy with the set up? Yes.

20

Personally, I find DCC a bit easier to wire and use.

I don’t use signals or CTC - the Maryland & Pennsylvania had neither. I also don’t control anything other than the trains with DCC.

So my wiring is mostly just 2 wires to the track, although for my larger layout I do need a bus and more connections to the track to avoid voltage drop.

I use a wireless throttle so no command bus is needed.

I enjoy sound occaisionally, so DCC is needed for that.

I have found that (for me) it is easier to have very slow speeds with DCC.

The major downside to DCC is cost - it does cost more.

I think that DCC has reached the point where it should be the default choice unless you have a reason not to rather than the other way around.

Paul