DCC

After reading the Electronics and DCC forum for a few years now I am glad I’m a DC type of guy. I plan to play by myself but if I do play with others I will learn DCC but some people seem to have BIG problems with getting things up and running with DCC. I do not believe it is that bad but if it is I will gladly PAY someone else to set it up for me. I grow up working on everything I could get my hands on and feel I have an advantage over most. And I do know people that can’t setup a simple stereo system but can wire up the space shuttle.

What I’m saying is, some people get it some don’t.

Not sure what you’re trying to say, but I used DC from 1958 to 1989, then went to Dynatrol, and in 1999/2000 went to NCE DCC. No particular problems getting it working or keeping it working and I am far from being an electronics expert. Just a question of reading, asking questions and taking it slow and easy.

Bob

On my second layout with DCC, no problems either time getting it to work, just hooked it up per the instructions and started running trains.

Same with all the DC layouts I built in the past.

Most every problem is someone trying to do something odd, or not following the instructions, or they got the unit assembled at the end of the day Friday and it’s DOA.

It’s relaly no more complicated to hook up than any common DC power method. here’s no need to actually know all the internal details of how turning the knob ont he throttle gets turned into commands that get sent ot the loco decoder that then adjusts the motor speed. Unless you are content to run oen loco at a time (in which case why bother with DCC?), the only thing you NEED to know is how to set an address. All the other bells and whistles, potentially 100 or more CVs - you don’t need to know that stuff just to run trains.

–Randy

Installing DCC is simple:

With my Silver Valley RR I built up the layout, attached a Zephyr to the track and put the engine on the track. Ready. I use Digitrax UT4, giving the engilne address and ready to run. To have it more convenient I use a few loco panels where I can attach the UT4 throttle. This requires a cable from the central unit - Zephyr - to the panels.

With my Westport Terminal RR it’s more work. I have there a few booster districts, one for every switching districts.

Wolfgang

Hello Bob I think what he is trying to say is that siome people do not have the natural ability to work with their hands . Around here we refer to them as “poindexters”. Usually exceptionally smart, as in rocket scientist smart , but they trip over their own shoe laces.Try as they might they cannot connect two wires, drive a nail etc…But they could figure out the math required to launch a rocket to Venus, land at a certain spot, how much fuel it will take to the last oz , what the flight path will be gravitational pull etc…

I started my first HO scale layout 7 years ago with a small DC operation (no blocks or anything complicated). Then I switched to an 8’ x 12’ DCC layout and had it up and running in a couple of hours. Since then I have built two more layouts including my current 22’ x 42’ layout. Never had any problems. To me, DCC is a lot simpler than DC, especially block district layouts.

It seems to me that most of the problems with DCC result from a lack of complete understanding of reversing sections and the use of rail gaps and auto-reverse units.

Rich

Even with just a 2 oval setup I went to DCC mainly for the sound control

DCC/DC sound works better in DCC

Plus I can get by with just the one power supply instead of 2 I had ( one for each oval)

Hi!

As background, I was a DC guy for about 45 years, and DCC for the last 2. I was scared to make the transition as I didn’t grasp electronics, although I understood electricity and wiring.

Thanks to a lot of reading and especially the Electronics portion of this Forum - and of course the terrific help I got from several folks here - I made a very successful transition (IMHO).

The thing is, DCC can be as easy or as complicated as you want it to be. If you follow the basic instructions and take it a step at a time, it really is fairly simple. Actually, in my case, the DCC wiring (when I rebuilt a former DC 11x15 two level layout) was significantly easier than the DC wiring of the earlier one

All that being said, I do agree that there are folks that “just can’t get it”. In example, house wiring is pretty logical and straight forward - almost mechanical in understanding - and most folks can grasp it. Electronics is not so straight forward (especially IMHO to the mechanically minded), for its hard for some to grasp what electronic boards, resistors, capacitors, etc., etc. is doing to the flow of the “power”.

Anyway, I made the switch, am very glad I did, and frankly enjoy my trains much more than I did before.

Of course the DCC section has a nice skew to it. Threads get started when people have problems. There are not many that are started when the DCC system is purchased, plugged in and works perfectly. It is a bit like standing at the doors to the service dept at your local Ford dealer and deciding not to purchase a car because they are all being worked on[banghead]

Johnny,

Like most things, we hear the ‘horror’ stories when someone has a bad experience with a new product. What usually is not posted is the hundreds of smooth DCC installs. If someone is upset or frustrated, they ‘vent’ to everyone they know(it could be a gas grill or computer that did not work when they brought it home).

In my case, I have had a couple DCC decoders installs that were frustrating. My layout install went very smooth, and 99% of decoder installs were smooth as well.

Does one ‘need’ DCC? - NO. But picking it up ‘on the fly’ is not going to just happen either. I would rather troubleshoot a DCC problem than try to figure out someones DC Cab Control wiring problem!

Jim

I suspect it’s a little like computers. When I got my first computer in the mid-nineties it was normal for it to lock up every so often and have to be rebooted, and to take 10 minutes to download a picture. Things continued to improve and become more reliable and fast. DCC has come a long way, and is getting much easier to use.

I think another problem is that people believe they have to “program” their decoders, like an early computer that requires you to use line after line of Basic or Fortran code. Yes, a Tsunami sound decoder has like 100 CVs you can set to get different effects, but like all decoders they come with factory default settings that will work fine as is. Install the decoder (often just removing a dummy plug and plugging in a decoder), change the address from “03” to the address you want (normally the number on the side of the engine or tender) and you’re ready to go. You can always fine tune things later if you want but you don’t have to do any more than that to operate the engine on DCC.

[:O]

I went DCC with Bachmann’s E-Z Command DCC system. Simple, easy to use, and the Bachmann DCC OnBoard locos {both steam and diesel} have served me well. Easy as pie!

I don’t “do” sound, which is where a lot of people get confused in setting up sound patterns and volumes.

ALso on the more “complicated” systems, and decoders. reseting a loco seems to be a sticking point as well.

SOme of those guide books are wriiten like a NASA manual and sometimes only electronics geeks can figure them out. But if you read only the parts about controling your loco, you should be fine.

I plan to move up to a new Digitrax Zephyr Xtra soon. It may be a bit more complicated than my EZ C, but I want teh extra amps. thats all.

Don’t let DCC scare you any more than a new car that will: let you know when tire pressure is low, will give you GPS readouts and talks to you, will PARALLEL PARK ITSELF, or let you communicate with teh world, heat and cool your seats, give you a traction control option or an economy fuel saver option or that has a 6 {yes 6} Speed auto tranny!

There is no inherent complexity in DCC. There is tremendous capability. If you chose to use all that capability then it can get complex, but that capability is not required in DCC, nor even available in DC.

Do not confuse what you CAN do with what you MUST do. Many people don’t care about all the bells and whistles that are possible with DCC. They are perfectly happy with DC. DC will never go away. I would never try to convert someone, nor do I feel that people who prefer DC are necessarily missing anything. If the system you have meets all your needs, why would you change?

I am only posting here to correct your inference that DCC is difficult and requires some great degree of programing or electronic knowledge.

Great responses all. I would not call myself a “poindexter” but I do know a few. As so eloquently stated some just don’t get. They tend to over complicate things.

The system isn’t a problem setting up, unless you’re one of those shop-class guys. The problem is the MAJOR cash that’s needed to get the equipment FOR DCC. That’s one of the reasons any DCC-preinstalled locomotive costs about a hundred bucks more than the DC version-it costs more to build it! This is one of the chief reasons, if not THE chief reason, that I don’t use DCC. mainly I don’t have cash 110% of the time, evn though I could hook up a DCC system no sweat from years of being a computer geek.

Take for example the current Athearn Genesis SD70ace. The street price from discounters is around $150 for a DC unit and $220 for the DCC with sound. However the DC unit can be easily upgraded to DCC by simply plugging in a DCC (non sound decoder) for between $15 and $20, depending on the decoder selected.

So I would contend that the cost difference you are referring to is actually more to do with the cost of adding sound, rather than DCC itself.

With the exception of Bachmann, there are very few offering locomotives with DCC installed and not sound. All current locomotives sold without DCC/sound are generally simple and inexpensive to upgrade to DCC.

The last time I checked, it was still the “Electronics and DCC” section.

As a vocal DC user on this forum, I will agree that the forum gives a skewed view as the reason many people post is because they are having a problem, not to proclaim basic success. this is true be it DC or DCC.

Even though I use DC at home, I operate and and am involved in the construction of a number of friends layouts that are DCC. So I use it all time andhave been invloved with its installation.

It is no more difficult than DC, as to the idea that it is simpler, I don’t really buy into that - It is different, and maybe it is a kind of different many people today are already use to - like cell phones, PDA’s, computers, etc.

Simple DC is just that simple - simple DCC is also simple. Both have their place based on the needs and wants of the user.

Very complex feature filled versions of both are possible - and are in use by modelers who desire those additional features. Can EVERYTHING DCC does be done in DC? - no. Can many of the advanced features associated with controlling model trains be done a number of different ways? YES.

The thing about any advanced control scheme is knowing what you want and considering the options to acheive it. They might include:

Signaling, detection, CTC, multi location turnout control, independent loco control, automatic or semi automatic operation, control of onboard sound, speed matching of locos, individual control of lighting effects, etc.

Some of the above list are currently best done with DCC, some of these can be done within the DCC infrastructure, or not, even if you choose to control the trains with DCC. It is in these areas that DCC quickly becomes complex, expensive and just as wiring intensive as advan