I have a fairly large layout 15x30 with a 7x60 extension. I am currently running DCS with a block system and 4 TIUS. I am told by my builder that adding TMCC or the new legacy is not possible and/or not practical as it will not run correctly. I can’t believe that this is true. I have about 10 lionel/atlas/third rail engines that I would love to run on the system. What is the best way to integrate the two systems.
Dr. Doug
It sounds to me like your builder is unfamiliar with TMCC/Legacy. As long as you plug the power supply for the command base (either TMCC or Legacy) into a grounded, up to code electrical outlet (not a surge suppressor power outlet), TMCC or Legacy will work fine on any model railroad. Sometimes one can get weak signals in parts of a layout due to wire mesh screen scenery for tunnels or tracks passing directly over other tracks in parallel, but these are easily fixed and uncommon.
Here’s the best part: as long as there is power on the track, all you need to do is hook up the command base’s one wire to one of the two outside rails at only one location anywhere on the layout, plug it into the outlet, pick up the handheld and address the locomotive in question and you’re good to go. It’s that simple. There’s no evidence, to my knowledge that DCS will interfere with TMCC/Legacy signals. Have fun.
Dr. Neil
It seems you have already conquered the tougher of the 2. If you have DCS working well I see no problems in incorporating TMCC. Your builder may be looking at TMCC and it’s many accessories such as TPC’s and Block power controlers and such. and the task may seem overwhelming. To simply run TMCC command shouldn’t pose any issues on most layouts. There are a few though. As mentioned in the previous post. Wire mesh tunnels as well as elevated portions of track with tracks directly beneath them can pose problems. There are workarounds to correct this. I’ve noticed some weak signals coming from some DCS engines when certain TMCC are present in the same block as well. Toggled sidings can correct this.
There are so many engines in both TMCC and DCS it’s crazy not to try to get both working together. I’d suggest buying the original Cab 1 TMCC setup. You presently don’t seem to own any new Legacy engines. Easy 1 wire hookup and a pretty simple learning curve as far as getting your trains running. If it works well you can later move on to Legacy. I’m one opperator that prefers running my TMCC through the DCS remote. A simple cable from MTH is all thats needed. An upgrade to 4 improves the TMCC side of things as far as running EOB equipped engines. I havent purchased Legacy yet and probably won’t until a special engine comes along.
I have 252 ft main line with one TIU. I simply aded the the single wire from the legacy command base to the fixed 1 output of the TIU. As long as the common on your layout is connected you should have no problem. MY legacy runs better then DCS it seems
I do have a earth ground running under most of my layout from installing outlets.
Thanks for the info. Will there be any problem being that the system is set up with blocks? We did this so that we could monitor train where abouts and to use various accessories that would be activated by voltage changes from the track via a relay.
Thanks
Doug
TMCC is considerably less sensitive (as in not sensitive at all) to length and number of blocks than DCS, and continuity of the center rail is irrelevant to TMCC . Since the signal is radio frequency employing the outside rail as the antenna, the signal is excellent at jumping insulated joints in any case. Usually, even with block systems, or signalling, at least one outside rail is continuous on most layouts. Connect the TMCC or Legacy command base’s single wire to that continuous rail if you have interruptions or independent loops. On small layouts it’s not even always necessary to connect the TMCC signal to every independent loops as the signal is easily detectable a few feet away by most locomotives. And if you are using tubular track, the two outside rails are continuous electrically. If you want to strengthen the TMCC signal, it’s usually quite easy. Just connect the TMCC signal to BOTH outside rails at the point of signal insertion. Some folks have found this helps with Gargraves and other track systems where the two outside rails are not electrically continuous. Block systems, per se, are, almost without exception, no problem with TMCC.
Not exactly true. I and lots of others [Buckeye for one] run TMCC/Legacy with a surge suppressor with NO problem what so ever. Get a high $$$ one. I can run TMCC/Legacy downstairs [my layout is in two rooms upstairs] and my house has plaster and BX cable [wires in metal flexible coduit] as it was built in 1940. I cringe when someone posts that you can NOT use a surge surpressor. You need one to protect your electronics [my TIU as I have DCS too]. DCS and Legacy work great together. Enjoy
I use 2, one directly from the outlet. To ensure that Legacy and a few other items have power applied prior to the transformers. Of course a good quality surge protector is well worth the $. My system works fine with Legacy/TMCC/DCS. No problem.
But, I forgot. Per a previous conversation I was told I can’t do what I’m doing anyway. I keep forgeting that I can’t run my systems together. Some folks just can’t accept new ideas and constraints, I will never learn. Going to go and run my trains, later.
“I cringe when someone posts that you can NOT use a surge surpressor.”
Not exactly what I posted Chief. I wrote that if you avoid plugging the command base into a surge suppressor or other power bar, you will have no problems. Some surge suppressors/multiple outlet bars interfere with the establishment of the radio frequency ground plane. You can try using the one you have and if all is OK, it’s no problem. If you have problems, you need to try plugging the command base into the grounded outlet directly. A command base (TMCC) costs about $50.00, so it’s not exactly in need of high priced protection, as with an uninterruptible power supply or even a $10 surge suppressor. The Legacy base is a pricier item. This is one of the potential glitches with TMCC, and actually the only common one, the failure to employ an up to code, functionally grounded outlet for the power supply. Which is why I mentioned it. There are so many poorly wired older houses that aren’t up to code that it’s worth warning people about so they don’t pull their remaining hairs out :).
When Joe Davis of Davis Trains (formally Davis Trains and Electronics and the former shop of Jim Barrett) told me to use a surge protector, I use a surge protector. I have yet to find a reason not to use a surge protector with my TMCC. Of course, since my TMCC has ran perfect since 2000, I must be doing something wrong based upon all those posts I have read over the last four years on how TMCC doesn’t do that or doesn’t do this.
TMCC - I have it, I use, I run it.
(BTW, Chief, I use two surge protectors. One for the power and a separate one for my accessories because the power for my accessories is not where it used to be on the layout. [:)])