I just read the DCS article in today’s issue of CTT. Maybe I’m just a technophobe, but that thing gives me the willies! Just the photo of the wiring harnesses for the “simple” layout shown is beyond what I call “fun”.
The reason I got into TMCC was because all it took was ONE wire and a plug in the wall. No matter what I do with the track plan, it works every time.
And what’s this deal with the ipod? They call it a 21st Century Walkman. I thought the Walkman was 21st Century. But then, I still rely on my trusty transistor radio is full-spectrum monaural sound!
The last thing I want to hear is Brittney Spears howling from the tender of a K4. But maybe it’s just me. Am I an old fogey at 41?
OGR passed on that article, and the appearance of requiring an electrical engineering degree may be why. DCS really isn’t that complicated. My layout is wired to run conventional, and then I inserted the TIU, big deal. I’ve talked several people in to getting DCS when all they previously had was conventional. They too were able to insert the TIU in between the transformer and track and immediately reap the rewards of their PS2 engines. Only one had to go as far as to add a light bulb to his terminal strip to get an improved signal.
Jamie is really smart when it comes to wiring layouts, but perhaps that article did little good to persuade a newbie in this hobby to try out DCS.
I have not recieved my copy of the magazine yet, but am looking forward to reading Jamie’s article.
I have been on both sides of the fence on the wiring issue. In most cases, all you have to do (as Rod M. stated) is to insert the TIU into the existing wiring and it works-Period. I was able to have DCS working on the Super O layout my Dad built for me in the 1960’s in about five minutes.
Occasionally, on a large or more complex layout, one will have to install special wiring to get things to work properly. On the other hand, you only wire it once and, if you do it right, its done forever, so it is not a big deal.
I have read a lot of Jamie’s posts on the OGR Forum, and find him to be very knowledgeable on the subject of DCS.
Again, I have not read the article yet, but I am sure that it is well written.
Don’t let the article scare you, IT IS VERY EASY TO OPERATE. I am electrically “challenged” from the get go and mine worked flawlessly from the very beginning. I think I’m a pretty good example of the typical person who is a bit aprehensive about trying something unfamiliar and once I started hooking it up I had it running in less than 5 minutes, it’s that easy. I have added non MTH loco’s and they run perfectly. I used block terminals and lock on’s and I have yet to have one problem in 3+ years of operation. I did struggle one day with an engine and it turned out to be “operator error”, my own fault.
The OGR video is an absolute must, I still look at it about once a year and learn something new each time.
The article is very accurate and lines up with many posts I have made about large layout wiring in the past with TMCC and DCS such as on our club layout. The wiring techniques shown for the power and signal distribution are exactly what I and Rick B did 3+ years ago. The point is you have to be careful with the signal runs as DCS is a very sophisticated RF signal being propagated down the wire pair, which act as a transmission line.
The analogy I have always used is most of you here remember the old twin lead wire you or your parents used to bring the TV signal from the roof mounted antenna to your set. If that wire degraded, your reception went bad. No difference with DCS. The wires to your layout act as a twin lead transmission line and they must be installed fairly cleanly to avoid signal distribution problems.
The article is an excellent article and serves as a guide for wiring a large layout regardless of whether one runs DCS or not.
Although I’ve not yet seen the article, I have used DCS (on an admittedly small layout) and must say that I had no problem at all connecting and using it. There are a lot of features to experiment with and learn, but seeing a DCS-equipped locomotive do all that it can do is the reward for just a bit of patience. As I see it, it’s a very versatile system, with nearly infinite expansion capabilities. The OGR video is a big help in learning about and understanding all that DCS can do.
I figure that if I can hook it up and make it work properly, anybody can do it.
Have a large layout with DCS and TMCC. Layout is wired such that power feeds from Z400 through TIU and then distributed to the track in a star configuration utilizing 16AWG with the hub located near the TIU. 18V bulb is utilized at the hub. Ground is distributed to multiple layout points with 10AWG and then soldered to track with 16 AWG. Track is Gargraves with all center rails and grounds soldered. Power and ground feeds are soldered to track. Engines typically return 9’s and 10’s signal strength on the entire layout.
The problem is that the layout will run flawlessly for a period of time and then an engine will suddenly “not be found” or “out of range” errors occur. Sometimes cycling the power helps but not consistently. The layout employs Z4000s and 2 TIUs. The TIUs and hand helds have been swapped out with brand new units that were “tuned up at the factory” to address the problem.
About the only thing that differs from the recent CTT article is that the wire is not run as a power/ground pair to the track.
wisnis - first - Welcome to the CTT forum [#welcome]
We have found on our club layout that large numbers of powered, but parked engines (DCS and TMCC) can foul things up. As we added switches to kill power to sidings, things improved significantly.
We have also found that some engines when parked, but powered, near where the TIU feeds the layout have caused some interference (we do not know why - we just happened to move them and the problem went away).
Even with the parked and powered engines, DCS signal levels are 9s and 10s. We can only assume they are providing a bit of interference in terms of signal reflections, but not signal loss.
Roy,
That’s unfortunate that you would have to install cut-off switches for the sidings as one of the big advantages of modern digital control is that you don’t (or shouldn’t) have to do all of the crazy block wiring and toggle installation that was necessary on a conventional layout.
I agree with Roy that the advantage of the modern system should be that you don’t need to add all the extra control switches/wiring or place locomotives in specific locations. I’m going to continue my search for the optimal solution that provides the intended operation.
Another question we should be asking is: Where’s MTH? Shouldn’t they be providing the answers to these questions?
In addition to the above, there are several reasons to cut off sidings…
With many parked engines and passenger trains on our club layout, one starts to draw several amps which detract from the ability to run trains in the power district controlled by that TIU. Remember a TIU can only handle about 10 amps per port. If you eat up 4-5 amps with parked stuff, that double headed lighted passenger train may exceed the TIUs capability.
To preserve the lifetime of bulbs in the equipment. Remember they are all running at full votlage.
To prevent runaway equipment that sometimes happens when someone accidentally removes a critical control signal (like TMCC) and all engines launch at full speed. Yes this stuff happens on a club layout when some folks mess with things they should not.
To prevent an engine or train being moved accidentally due to a duplicate loco number (TMCC case) and the operator doesn’t know he is moving two trains on different areas of the layout.
To prevent an operator that has a duplicate loco (DCS case), i.e. two different UP 0-6-0 Switchers on the layout, yet unique loco # in the DCS handheld, and he is controlling the wrong one, doesn’t understand why the one he is looking at is not moving and the other one is taking off as he keeps increasing the speed!
Roy,
I’m not saying that conventional power cut-offs don’t have merit. I’m just saying that their installation shouldn’t be REQUIRED to make the digital control system perform without error. One of the original selling points for digital (before DCS) was that you can have many locos on the same layout and even the same tracks with no issue and no block wiring. I would not accept the idea of having to install toggles. I would want MTH to offer a reason and a solution.
I recall that one of the guys on the OGR forum whom is in the NJ highrailers club mentioned that DCS was giving them some fits on the large club layout. Not sure if they ever found a fix.
No matter how people try to slice it, TMCC is both easier and less expensive as a control system to run trains. Now DCS has some very nice advanced features, but i really dont need to hear the engineer sneeze or a couple having an argument in the sleeper car.[:D] I have enjoyed my TMCC ever since the day i bought it, and it has performed flawlessly over two years. If you want more bells and wistles, by all means, go for DCS. However if you want something that works, easy to install, and is easy to understand buy TMCC.
Bill
