Quick question. I understand the deadman’s stick was an actual stick and used in early days. Today, buttons are pressed (every 15 seconds) to ensure engineer is alert/awake.
When did the transition from stick to button occur.
I think in between they used what was called a “Dead Man’s Pedal”?
every 15 sec im glad i dont have that engine as i never get any sleep or go to the bathroom.
Wabash1,
I ride the VRE daily and often go to the front when the train is in reverse ops. There’s a large glass window where I can observe the engineer and the track ahead (yes I take photos of the tracks ahead and no, I haven’t been arrested yet). I notice the button she pushes. (photo of tracks ahead attaching)
Mookie,
Interesting about the pedal. Perhaps someone knows the darwinian-type evolution of stick to pedal to button?
BTW, watching her press the buttons like a lab rat and calling out the signals every few minutes convinced me not to try out for engineer, as you can’t just kick your feet up and watch the scenery fly by.
and your point is??? I cant see in the post i wrote where i said anything about getting arrested or needing to get arrested. In fact i really dont care. The fact is i am glad i dont have that engine as i have only had 1 like it in the years i been running . the simple fact is not all enginees are like the one you say she is hitting the button on every 15 sec. and if this is true is it more so for signal aknolgment or for the alerter. either way i never heard of a stick other than to hold the dead mans pedal down and that is why they did away with the pedal.
Every fifteen seconds is a little extreme, most locomotives are set up so that about every 42-45 seconds, you have to take some action, some are set up so that at slower speeds, the crew call alerter will cycle more quickly.
Don’t know about deadman pedals, some railroads didn’t have the deadman pedal technology and didn’t have anything on their locomotives until the crew call alerters. Others did have deadman pedals, which required the engineer to keep his foot on the deadman pedal, a miserable prospect on a long trip.
As for stick, I have no idea what you’re referring to and I’ve been around the block a few times.
I think what he is talking about is the alertor “whisker” which we still see on many units. This is essentially a length of tight metal spring that protrudes from the control stand and can be wiggled to reset the alertor.
It should be noted that the deadman’s pedal was not an alertor but was instead connected to the airbrake system directly. As I understand it it was basically a restricted valve that allowed air to escape from the automatic brake resulting in a penalty application when the engineer’s foot wasn’t on it. Crews did devise many ways to cheat such as a flag stick or other item placed on the pedal. I have heard its removal justified as a cost saving. Perhaps Randy Stahl can correct me if I am misunderstanding the mechanics of the system as it was gone by the time I hired out.
LC
I thought that the alerter would go off @every 45 seconds and need to be reset if the engineer did not make any of type on control system change - ie the throttle, brakes, etc.??
CC
Actually I think the pedal came first. Problem is the crew would often cheat and place heavy objects like rocks, lunchboxes, and bricks on it. So the railroad companies came up with the stick and the later the button.
There are a number of different systems and there is a significant variance abougt how they operate. Some are interlocked with the controls and others are not. Particularly on some of the older NS units, you can be moving the throttle or brake handle and have the alerter go off at the same time. Very annoying.
LC
Bricks? The old heads who ran the E units on the IC’s passenger trains wouldn’t take a chance of being caught with bricks in the grip. On the other hand, a couple of locomotive brake shoes in were good “just in case”. The grip had to be on the floor next to the engineer’s right foot. Wouldn’t want to miss a signal while turning around to get the coffee thermos out of the bag.
LC, you are correct (as far as I know) about how the deadman pedal worked.
My favorite deadman defeater was the air hose wrench.
My second favorite was the conductor. I’d wait until he was asleep, then I’d pick him up off his seat and lay him down on the pedal; an added advantage to this system was the conductor’s body made a nice, warm foot rest.
The P2A valve was invented to apply the brakes during a penalty brake application . Usually on the older devices a foot pedal was coneected to a whistle that was cleverly hidden in the control stand , sometimes there were two of them if the locomotive was equipped with cab signals. Most engines were also equipped at some point with an overspeed system that would give a penalty application if a set speed was exceeded. In all cases the air from the P2A was vented to atmosphere through the little whistles in the control stand. It was possible to defeat some of the safety devices as stated earlier , however you did not want to get caught !!! Since the application of sophisticated electronics in locomotives and especially the need for a data event recorder it was necessary to make defeating the safety devices impossible .
Randy