So I’ve been working on getting room in my house to try to get a new layout going again. I had an 8x16 layout in my family’s basement when I was growing up. And my family owned a toy and hobby store in western Massachusetts up unitl about 1995. When I moved for college in 1997, the trains got packed up, and were sent with me after graduation. Since then I’ve been working on getting some space in a house for a layout, using the majority of my semi-old (early 90s) HO equipment.
Fast forward to now, and I’ve got room for an L-shaped 8x8 layout. I’ve got a basic design in my head, with it running two engines at the same time, probably on seperate levels. I’m at the point that I have to decide how to wire this whole thing up. I have exactly 0 experience inn any of this “new fangled” DCC stuff.
So my question is two-fold: With the relatively “smallness” of the nature of the layout, is it worth to go the DCC method (even just for the sake of experience with the system), or am I better off going with what I know with a DC setup? Money isn’t so much a huge issue as it is will it be worth spending the time and effort learning a new technology.
Hook it up for DC, since you are already equipped and have some fun. As you get more familiar with web sites like this it will start to become apparent what DCC can do, and you may find yourself drawn in that direction. No big deal to convert the layout later, I had every intention of going DCC when I started back in the hobby, but ran DC for at least a year while the track plan developed.
Having built and wired layouts for both DC and DCC, it’s been my experience that you can accomplish more, and do it more easily, using DCC.
The size of the layout doesn’t matter, and in fact, DCC might be an even better choice for a smaller layout with multiple locos. The reason is that on a smaller layout, you have less room for “reasonably sized” electrical blocks. Since you don’t need to block a layout with DCC, that doesn’t matter. You can run those locos right up to each other anywhere on the layout, without any regard for where those block boundaries are (because there aren’t any!)
So if I were to go with the DCC, and I know I’m probably opening a can of worms here, what’s recommended for someone who’s starting off with DCC? I’m a technology manager w/ my day job, so having to program something isn’t really a big deal, but I don’t want to go all 'overkill" on a system that I just need to run a few Athern and Atlas engines. I know some hobby stores in the area have “DCC Starter Sets”, but I’m not sure that’s the best way to go.
I was always die hard “DC”. My last layout was built DC. It had alot of wiring and switches to control the blocks. It was difficult to run two trains in the same block. I converted to DCC as a result of seeing it operate. Less wires and more realistic locomotive movements. I’m currently building a new layout and is DCC. I am very impressed with DCC, especially with sound. No turning back for me.
It is likely you would learn, and eventually enjoy, just about any of the systems out there. If you can accept that, then anything else that matters has to do a bit with ergonomics, features, the quality and clarity of provided instructions (in the manual and/or on line), expandability, and how much power it offers at the outset.
You would want a minimum of 2 amps, and that is rock bottom. Many prefer a corded or cordless (radio) throttle, and don’t really like having to push the throttle buttons on the same base controller all the time…that is immobile…fixed in one location.
Many of us have 4 amps and up so that we have a cushion for lighted passenger cars, multiple engines heading a longer train, or when two or more friends are present controlling their own trains. Few of us would ever want more than 4 amps if we operate by ourselves 80% of the time or more. If your layout is larger, and you have friends over with their own throttles as often as not, 4 amps may not be enough, and you might actually need one booster or more. Your layout is going to be small enough for the time being that expandability is more important and amperage over 4 amps not really necessary.
The size of any read-out/displays, the brightness, numbers of throttles the unit can handle, the numbers of addresses kept in memory, the size of the hand-held throttle if it has one, and the size of the buttons.
How many functions would you be interested in control
I would agree with Steve, so many think that DCC is for larger layouts, when it is on the smaller layouts is where the strengths of DCC can really shine. If I was still active in HO, and building a new layout from zero, it would be DCC. I still respect those that run DC, but my intrests for the last 5 years or so have been AC powered, O-Gauge, so I don’t have the DC/DCC decision to make (conventional or TMCC/Legacy, which was my choice, or DCS)
We run DC and a convertible section that is also DCC capable, at the HO club I am a semi-active member of. We use NCE, and I have heard many say that NCE is more user friendly than some others. I would reccomend looking at NCE’s entry level system, it comes complete for around $189.00, offers 2 amps, and the controler is the same as the upgraded system, and is upgradeable to radio.
I’m thinking that all I’ll need for control is the engines, lighting, perhaps some sound, and the mechanical functions of the layout (switches and such). The layout itself will be mostly rural, so there won’t be an overwhelming amount of buildings to have any sort of function with.
A DigiTrax Zephyr would be a great starter DCC system (especially if you have one or two DC power packs handy, they can be used as throttles). However, this is more expensive than two DC power packs.
Wiring the layout is easier than DC, just two bus wires and feeders. You could use insulated rail gaps on sidings (controlled by a toggle switch) if you wanted to prevent accidents, but not necessary.
Using DCC to control turnouts runs around $15 per turnout and you have to address each turnout. Not sure the benefit on a smaller shelf type layout. But then, DCC is expandable.
I’ve got a couple of MRC DC power packs, both were pretty nice at the time.
Would it be worth it to handle the turnouts and such with just a regular DC toggle switch, or is there more that the DCC would bring to it? Again, the layout’s going in a relatively small room, but I’ve gotten about an 8x8 area for it, so there’s not a whole lot of need for walkaround.
How you control your turnouts is dependent on how you picture operating the layout. And there’s nothing that says they all have to be controlled the same way. If you are walking around with the train, you could use a DC toggle, or even a ground throw. A dispatcher could use toggles or DCC. If you want to set routes, DCC can be handy, but it can be done with DC as well. My feeling is that DCC control of the turnouts adds a level of complexity to operation that could be kept simpler. Others could certainly see that differently.
Those MRC power packs would work perfectly as jump throttles with the Digitrax Zephyr. And your statement that you don’t have much need for walkaround would make the Zephyr with jump throttles an ideal choice. Plus, the Zephyr is very expandable, so if your layout situation changes the Zephyr can grow with it.
As far as turnout control, well, that’s your choice. I’d go DCC, but that’s just me. [;)]
I have a small layout (to grow bigger later) and had also done a DC layout many years ago. This one I did tentatively with DCC … and have never looked back. MUCH easier. Two buss wires under the layout, connectors (two wires) to each run (or section) of track. You don’t HAVE to do any programming (though the options are there) to speak of. I went with the Zepher and am very happy. I use hand throws for some and tortoises for some turnouts and sidings (maybe some day I’ll control them with DCC). One guy can run two trains easily, which would have been tough on my old DCC layout with block wiring. So I recommend DCC. It will be more expensive to start… DCC unit and loco’s with DCC module (or install on older locos). But I’m not sorry I did it.
I agree with Simon. Go with what you know at first. When you get some locos converted to DCC and you’re ready to change over to a DCC system all you have to do is disconnect your power pack(s) and hook up the DCC system and it should work as is. I’m powering over 130 feet of nickel-silver track wired for standard DC blocking with a Digitrax DCS50 and I’m not having any problems. Once you find out what DCC can do you’ll likely never look at DC the same way again.
I control my turnouts the old fashioned way. With a power pack supplying current to a control panel with sets of SPST toggle switches to select turnouts and momentary contact DPDT switches to trip them. The type of power pack isn’t really important. I use an old Bachmann trainset power pack to power my switch machines.
I’ve been playing with trains since the early '50s, but have been in DCC for only a year. It was a well studied decision to move from my two MRC CM-20s to a Digitrax Super Chief with second booster, etc., etc. In my case, I am very happy I did so - but I can also tout both sides of the fence.
From what I gather, you are relatively young, and are looking to get back into the hobby after a number of years. So with that as a given, may I suggest:
Take what you have and build yourself a nice DC layout - making sure that you wire it for a potential changeover to DCC. By this I mean to use substantial power bus(s), short feeders every 3 or 4 feet, and well documented & clear cut (neat) wiring.
This will allow you two very significant benefits. The first is, you will soon find out if you are truly interested in getting back into the hobby. Frankly, you are at a time of your life that a whole lot of other influences will be pulling at your time, energy, and pocketbook. The second is, you will relearn the various layout building skills (i.e. benchwork, wiring, design, scenery, etc.) and that is quite a handfull. And, adding in the learnings of DCC may be a bit too much at this time, and will take away from your time spent in just building the layout.
When (if???) you get your DC layout up and running and fully tested and you are happy with what you have, then I would look into DCC. My personal “research” came down to Digitrax or NCE, and can only say that these are touted by a lot of folks that know a lot more than me about them. They have been around for some time, make quality products, and they are easily available. And, once you do get DCC, if you have wired properly, it should be minimal effort to change over.
In any case, when your layout is built, you will h
Contrary to some of the other opinions in this thread, my advice would be to start with DCC and don’t look back. If you go the DC route first you will have spend a fair amount of time and money on components that will not be needed with DCC. Items needed for multiple cab control such as toggle or rotary switches and a lot of extra wire are not needed in DCC. You fleet of equipment is probably quite small so the cost of converting them to DCC will be minor, especially considering your statement that money isn’t the overriding factor.
There is a point of view that holds that DCC is even more beneficial to a small layout. You won’t be needing to carve the layout into small blocks to permit 2 cab control. Two operators can operate wherever they please with concern about electrical blocks on a DCC controled small layout.
With the majoity of your equipment being early 90s, depending on the manufacturer, they shouldn’t be too difficult to install decoders in. As a technology professional you’ll enjoy the tech side of DCC and what it can do so why delay the inevitable, which would be the switch to DCC, and start of planning and building for it. You won’t regret it.
I was going to say exactly the same thing, but Steve already expressed it eloquently. I too have a small (5x12 HO) layout, and I went to DCC at the beginning. My wiring is simple, and I can run multiple trains, all by my lonesome, without constantly worrying about blocks.
Another thing you can do with DCC is “speed matching,” so your multi-engine consists will operate smoothly together.
And then, of course, there are all those sound engines. I’ll admit to being a sound junkie, as quite a few of us are. Even if you eventually decide against it, you should go out and listen to sound engines in action before you go out and buy non-sound engines. It’s cheaper to buy sound pre-installed than it is to buy a non-sound engine and then go in and add the sound yourself.
Thats just plain bad advice Jeffery. Why go through the aggravation of wiring a layout DC with all that extraneous wire and switches, and toggles,when you can go DCC and wire it in 2 days instead of 2 months. Good Grief [:(!]
Orignal poster said: “…Fast forward to now, and I’ve got room for an L-shaped 8x8 layout.”
I doubt whether wiring such a layout for simple DC operation would require “all that extraneous wire and switches”, unless he is contemplating a very complicated track plan. In that respect, converting to DCC would go just as predicted…hook up the same two wires to what exists.