I think this has been a facinating thread-- thank you very much CNJ831 for starting it.
For anybody just picking it up, here are links to parts I & II:
Declining Interest in Web Forums
Declining Interest in Web Forums – Part II. What to Do About it?
In the other threads one item that has come through often and very clearly is the suggestion that there are not enough “Advanced Topics” to hold the interest of the “Advanced” hobbyists. And by extension, I presume the same could be said for “Intermediate Topics”.
Personally I am not sure what either of those are, though I reckon that I might be able to pick some out if placed side-by-side with the beginner topics.
But I am curious what the next levels are-- what are “Intermediate” and “Advanced” topics?
Please be as specific as you can, I’m taking notes! [:D]
Some of the most respected model railroaders of the past never had a railroad of their own. Mel Thornburgh built fabulous locomotive models, then gave them away.
Everyone started off having nothing but an interest. No one was born with a Master Model Railroader certificate in hand.
So, really, who cares? To all of the above except airbrushing I can honestly say, “Been there, done that.” So, I feel qualified to help novices and offer second opinions - but I still wear the same size hat and I know that there isn’t a single area of expertise where there isn’t someone (or a whole regiment of someones) more expert than I will ever be.
Am I intimidated by so-called ‘experts.’ I’m a retired Master Sergeant. Draw your own conclusions.
I think most of the “advanced” modelers don’t even read or participate in these forums, possibly because they regard them as too beginner oriented and want to participate in something more to their level of experience.
I’m certainly not one of the advanced modelers, but I do get very tired of reading the same old “What DCC system should I buy?” type of questions that come up every week, week after week.
I used to reply to some of these questions, but now I just ignore them.
An advanced topic that is guaranteed to kill a thread or generate only a few responses is anything on prototypical operations (car forwards, main track authority). Pretty much the only places I have found that discuss anything N. American operations-wise with any depth or regularity are the OpSig Yahoo Group and a couple other purely dispatching oriented Yahoo Groups. I have found a foreign site or two that regularly discuss operations outside the US, mostly in the UK or Europe, but the operation there is so conceptually different it really isn’t transferrable to N American practice, other than it is “operation”.
Don’t know whether its lack of interest, fear of participating, fear of actual debate, or resistance to structure, on most forums an “operations” thread is mostly pictures of guys running trains with no discussion of why or how.
I’ve tried participating in threads, starting threads, hijacking threads, being supportive, being confrontational, everything I can think of on forums outside the Opsig and nada, can’t generate a lick of interest.
Discuss how to search the internet and you’ll spawn 2 or 3 other threads with a couple hundred posts, that will live for weeks. Discuss how a real train gets from A to B and if you get 3 or 4 posts, if you are lucky (not counting the posters who will object to being too realistic or prototypically oriented) and it dies within a day or two with zero follow up.
As I said on the other thread, it is not so much the issue of “intermediate” or “advanced” but one of focus. This forum by nature is too broad to hold the attention of someone with a more focused interest.
You gain experience, you find what you really enjoy and you seek out and find groups that cater more specifically to that interest. It does not mean that you are necessarily a better modeller.
All this contemplation of your navels is kind of silly.
It’s a model train forum, not anything really important. People will drift in and drift out. It was a miserable winter and now its a nice spring. Plus its spring break in a lot of places. Some people are out enjoying the real world.
As was shown days ago, participation is not really down by a large amount. Just CNJ trying to claim the hobby is dying in a different way. Consider the source.
Some of you seem to be really bored, maybe you should try a hobby besides internet forums.
I guess it all comes down to what you know and are comfortable with.
I, for one, am interested (actually very interested) in prototypical operations but am intimidated by the subject. I have numerous books on it, including Koster’s Prototypical Operations Book and Chubb’s Sunset Valley Book, which has a good sized chunk devoted to the subject, Armstrong’s mini-guide to signalling (whatever its called), and so forth-- and they all see
Over on the new “Forum Members: Just A Quick Huddle if you don’t mind!” I suggested adding a beginners forum section. Perhaps there should be a “beginners forum”, and an “advanced forum” like there is the “electronic and DCC” section and a “layouts and layout building” section.
Anyone who feels they are “advanced” can go there, anyone who is a newbie can go to the beginners forum and others can cross between the two, since “intermediate” may be hard to define.
Like a first year DR, may have little tolerance for a first year Med student, the more advanced here loose patience with the novices. The feeling of superiority and inferiorority exists in all of us when praised or put down.
What amazes me is that most here have children and grandchildren…they have patience and teaching lessons for them but not for the novice on the forum???
In short, WE should ALL practice tollerance, kindness, gentleness with our selves, our forum and other forum members, and enjoy it, regardless of skill level.
You are barking up the wrong tree. This notion that things are “so advanced” that “mortals” need not apply overt-states what happens on a more focused forum.
Take a niche facet of the hobby, Craftsman Structure Building, as an example. If this is something you are interested in, following build threads etc, there is not much of that here. There are other forums that have a stronger focus and provide more meat, to those that are interested. They are not more advanced, just more specialized.
I think that several of the post on the various threads gave the distinct impression that this was a beginners place and when you became more accomplished you moved on.
My counter was to suggest that rather than becoming more accomplished, one simply became more focused.
As Dave H. mentioned, this goes on on the OpSIG Yahoo Group. By the way, for those who wish to learn about real-life and model operations, the OpSIG is a great source. And at 5 bucks per year for membership with electronic delivery of the publication, it’s the best deal in model railroading. The OpSIG’s Operations Primer FAQ is another good source, as are the Gateway NMRA’s Operations pages.
I am not barking up any tree at all-- I am merely following-up on the comments that others have made in response to these threads. They are the ones who are terming things “more advanced”. I indicated at the outset that I don’t know what “advanced” topics are and that’s why I started this thread-- to find out.
That said, I understand “more specialized”, that makes sense.
I am already a member of OpSig and do go there from time-to-time to peruse the various articles and such. And there are definitely a lot of good bits of info to be gleaned there.
And I will also go take a look at the thread you referenced, thanks for the pointer.
And don’t forget to plug your own site: www.layoutvision.com wherein you discuss anything and everything noteworthy for the Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced and Demi-God status modeler…
You people are hilarious. You are actually trying to find an answer to this and trying to resolve it. LMAO this is some funny ***! I guess when you are not online you go to Elementary, middle & high schools trying to lure children into your basement to paly with you and the trains? LMAO Leave them lil boys alone! This is a daamn hobby not a business of selling homes with numbers being low. Its something people have FUN with when the hell they want to not when you want them to. There is no need to ANALyze the topic over and over. Get the fuuck outta here with this BS. there is only about 5-10 people AT MOST going on and on with this garbage. How many is that as a percentage of members here? Hmm 2% or some low number like that. Jwhitten must be feeling real good about himself THINKING he is being PROACTIVE by posting all these SUPER BORING topics about shiit!! Well get over that real fast, its corny dawg!! You are dragging it out like a school girl that was just told she is not in the in crown now you are trying to find out HOW can you get there.
The forum is not a school system with a fixed ciriculum, thus the posters, or students as a metaphore, decide what will be discussed by asking questions or making comments. If you think this fourm is, “dumbing down,” everyone because the posters are not, “advanced,” enough, then it seems it’s up to you to start discussions of some of the things you mentioned because you are the only one who can control that. If you have, great; if you haven’t, close this discussion and get busy; it will solve a lot of the complaints you and a lot the other posters have, and I’m saying that in a nice way as constructive criticism.
I don’t think he was complaining about anything at all, nor “dumbing down” the forum-- he was responding to and attempting to answer my original question at the outset-- what is it that people are terming “advanced topics”. The term / idea came up repeatedly in the replies and I am just curious what it is that people are referring to.
