I have a Bachmann sound value 2-8-2 pulling freights on my MEC layout. I’m a dinosaur who still uses DC for control for a variety of reasons. The loco works fine in DC, but honestly, I find the sound annoying. How does one dissasemble this model to remove the decoder and will this be an easy task? If I remove it, will the engine run fine witout any other changes?
Thanks,
David
Alternatively, you can just cut one of the speaker wires, which will silence the engine. But be aware that reverting your changes will require you to resolder that wire.
I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the Bachmann sound and value locos do not have seperate lighting boards and decoders connected with 8 pin plugs?
Have you had one apart to see otherwise?
Sheldon
If that is so, then cutting or desoldering and insulating the one speaker wire becomes a compelling way to accomplish the desired effect.
Bachmann’s parts diagrams do not give any electrical details, but the tender parts diagram sure looks like there is only one circuit board with an intergrated sound decoder.
As a DC operator using Aristo Train Engineer throttles, I remove all decoders because they will not work with the PWM output from the Train Engineer.
I have not yet had occasion to purchase a Sound and Value loco and see what will be required to make it straight DC. But I suspect it will require removing the circuit board and rewiring the lights. OR, salvaging spare lighting boards, which I have a few of in surplus DC Bachmann tenders.
Sheldon
I guess I’m not understanding what the OP has.
So, this is a “DCC ready” (no decoder installed) loco, with sound that works on DC ?
Mike.
No he has a sound value Bachmann.
My apologies, I assumed it had a similar tender to the 2-8-0 or 4-8-2. Couldnt find any exploded diagrams of this online.
I just looked at the review on MRVP and it looks like the lights are directional. You will lose that if you just rip out the decoder.
People have repeated posted in the past, that the sound on start up cannot be disabled on startup via CV’s
I don’t know if the video is free or only for members. I an unable to sign out of MRVP to check. It doesn’t show the decoder. Sound value does have sound on DC.
If he wants ‘sound on demand’ he could install a simple switch accessible through or under the bottom of the tender, and wire one of the speaker leads to it. Or install a two-pin ‘computer’ jumper connector like the kind used to set IDE hard drives.
Mike, it is a DCC loco with sound and a dual mode decoder that works on DC. But, on DC you do not have control of the sounds and you have no function keys to mute the sound.
The decoder and lighting is I suspect all one circuit board, so converting it to true DC without sound means removing the circuit board and rewiring the lights yourself.
Clipping the speaker wire will stop the sound, but the decoder will still require a high throttle position before the loco moves.
If the OP is sure he is not switching to DCC any time soon, and does not want sound, rewiring the loco to eliminate the decoder with give the best throttle performance on DC.
Like all decoders, the sound and value instructions warn against using the decoder with advanced DC throttles with pulse or PWM control.
Sheldon
If unsure about future DCC use, just be careful in removing the board - leave enough lead length to allow the decoder board to be reconnected, or unsolder the wires right from the board itself - after noting carefully where they go. Then it will be a fairly simple job to reinstall it if in the future, the OP converts to DCC.
Plenty of reason to completely remove the decoder if using DC. There’s Sheldon’s issue with PWM throttles confusing the heck out of the decoder and it’s automatic switching between DC and DCC, and then there is the simple fact that the same loco as pure DC may start moving at 2 volts, while the loco with the decoder isn’t going to move until 5-6 volts are on the rails, maybe more. So much for doubleheading a pair of them if one has a decoder and the other doesn’t.
–Randy
If the OP removes the decoder/board completely, what will have to be done so it runs on DC ?
I mean, after he removes it, he’ll have a tender full of wires. Whats next?
Mike.
Pickups from one side get tied to one side of the motor, pickups fromt he other side get tied tot he other side of the motor. That’s enought o make it run. Lights can get tricky, depends if they are LEDs or incandescent. If LEDs, a resistor is probably required, and a little trial and error to figure out which wire is which so that when the loco moves forward, the front LED is the correct polairty to light the headlight,m and the backup light goes on when the loco is backing up. If the lights are incandescent, and 12-16V, they just get hooked up to track power, but then will be on all the time the loco is running - might want to only hook up the headlight.
–Randy
I believe the consensus, such as it is, on Sound Value decoders is that they have the LED lighting resistors built into them, and that any ‘light’ wires therefore need 1K resistors put in circuit with them if the decoder is removed.
I don’t think it’s worth removing the decoder and retrofitting some light board if all he’s concerned about is sound. Wouldn’t it work fine to put a switch for the motor lead(s) in, too?
Someone with the appropriate software: what if he used one of those now-infamous DPDT switches in the tender, with the sound wire being switched between DCC and “off” (perhaps null) for DC, and the hot motor lead doubled and switched between continuity in DC and connection to decoder in DCC (with full disconnection between)?
You need a few more poles than a DPDT switch - but that’s a possibility. Position A - DCC: Track pickups feed the decoder, decoder output connect to motor leads. Position B - DC: Track pickups feed motor, motor outoputs of decoder are disconnected, track pickups to decoder are disconnected. A 4PDT switch would work. Doesn’t even have to be center off - if you only flip it while the loco is off the track. No lights in DC mode, but it would be easily switched between plain DC and full DCC operation. A jumper would work, too - 8 pin DIP plug, with pins shorted across. Two sockets - in one, the plug links track pickups to the motor, but the decoder inputs and outputs are not connected, in the other, 2 of the pins are track power to decoder, the other 2 are decoder out to motor. Sort of like early Atlas DCC locos, before the decoders could do dual mode. They had a similar jumper, it didn’t replace the decoder, the jumper simply decided if the decoder was in the circuit or not.
–Randy
I looked up an old thread and posted in that instead of this one.
There are constant lighting circuits.
Randy then commented "That simple circuit with the LED and the CL25N3 driver is directional as is. The LED will only light when the polarity is correct, so on one end of the loco, the LED conencts to the right rail and the driver connects to the left rail, for the other end of the loco, flip those connections. If they are backwards (rear light goes on when loco moves forward), just reverse both circuits."
–Randy
As far as the lights go, it would be like before decoders, I used to install LED’s in my Athearn BB locos.
If he took his loco to someone with a DCC controler, and function buttons, could he set F8, and would the sound stay off when He takes it back to his layout?
Or would it go back to default as soon as he powered it on.?
Probably a dumb question, but…
Mike.
Best advise would be trade it for a DC engine. Though I think the one he has is a very good value for the price (asuming he didn’t pay MRRP), there are much better engines he could get that will run even better.
Far from a dumb question. As noted the ‘Sound Value’ engines default to sound-on when in DC, and that is the objectionable thing here. It’s reported that in DCC they always power up with sound on and while you can then ‘mute’ them using CV8, you have to do it on every ‘power-up’, which is an objectionable thing there.
What I wondered, on and off, is whether one of the ‘Quantum Engineer’ style boxes to access features on some locomotives, could give him the ability to send the CV8 code to mute the sound with a simple button push every time the locomotive starts making noise…
… of course, the switch in one wire to the speaker is quick and far more definitive in solving his issue.