Regular ones shouldn’t move enough vertically to uncouple if the grade transition is smooth enough in the first place. Under tension, it should first take out any vertical ‘slop’ in the coupler shank, then the knuckle faces will start sliding past one another - so it sure sounds like there is a rather abrupt transition.
–Randy
It does seem clear what is going on here and that transition is the cause.
Some years back, I tried running some 89’ flat cars on a modular layout and had the same issue as reported by the OP. Two things are at play that caused the cars to uncouple. 1) the track on the modules was uneven so that coupler height differences would be pronounced at various places were they were uneven. 2) add to that the differences in couple height would be emphasized on longer cars due to the length of the car acting as a lever, forcing coupler height to be even lower or higher than shorter cars.
My solution at the time was to just not run long flat cars (or auto racks) because they were the most prone to false uncouplings. But it wasn’t lost on me how a workable solution would be to mount those cars with shelf couplers. It wasn’t something I ever did because I didn’t remain with that modular group, but if I had, I would have bought and installed shelf couplers. It makes sense it would resolve that issue.
I expect as a “work around”(as we call it in the IT world) would be for the OP to buy a couple sets of shelf couplers and give it a try.
Long term, yes, transitions from flat to steep grade need easments and that would need to be rebuilt. Another of those lessons learned after the fact, in some cases.
The problem with “temporary solutions” is they tend to become permanent. Fix it right the first time, and you will never regret it or consider it time wasted.
I am well acquainted with temporary solutions in my line of work. Some of our workarounds will remain in place until we finally upgrade to Windows 10. Some temporary solutions have been in place for more than a year or two so far.
As is often the case, it’s easier said than done for any number of reasons. Sometimes there are things out of your control which makes it impossible to “fix it right” at this point in time.
The OP has both the temporary fix and the long term fix now defined. I’ll step out of this and leave it up to him to decide - I don’t know what he has going on down there in the weeds. Cheers.
Going to the Amherst show on the 27th so I’ll pick up some couplers there and try the workaround (I’m from the IT world also).
But there’s definately the danger of it becoming permant, in which case, I’ll just call it a bug fix [:D]
So I see we are on the same page! [8-|]
I know some say it like it is a bad thing, but hey, if it gets the job done.
One the IT people in my agency used to have a tag in his signature:
“as long as it works” [:D]
I know if you go that route it may poke a few bears, but they’ll get over it in time. [oX)]
BTW, my wife is from England and I"m sure she has told me that a scouser is what they call Brits from Liverpool. Is that right? She is a geordie btw! [:p]
Hello all,
I too had the same problem.
The only permanent solution was to fix the transition.
Sorry to break the news to you.
Hope this helps.
In my experience, the reason “temporary fixes” never get actually made right is that nobody wants the work on their department’s budget.
Better to bring out some big splashy system that doesn’t actually work right then take the time and money to remove a rats’ nest of code that eats up half your maintenance budget.
You are wasting your time and money.
As I understand the issue, you are looking for couplers that have more vertical gathering range because with what you have one will slide up over another. (I presume that you have checked that the centerline of the couplers are in line with each other on a level track.)
The design of the shelf couplers prevents one coupler from sliding up over another. This was already mentioned by another poster. So you will be trading unwanted uncouplings for unwanted derailments.
Either fix the transition, or use shorter cars.
lol, you are correct, I am originally from Liverpool [:D].
‘Scouse’ is a kind of meat and potatoe stew that was eaten in Liverpool during war times as it was inexpensive and easy to make, hence the name ‘scousers’
My impression is gathering range isn’t the issue. Re-read scousers original post. He can couple the racks together elsewhere on the flat and with the shelf couplers doing their job, that should prevent them from separating vertically when those cars pass through the transition from horizontal to grade.
Anway, iIt’s not a waste of money. Let me tell you why. If, for some reason, the shelf couplers don’t work out for the auto rack uncoupling issue, I expect scouser has some tank cars which could use the shelf couplers. [;)] So far, out of all the tank cars I have purchased, none have come with shelf couplers out of the box. I need to purchase some shelf couplers too.
Exactly, which is why using them should keep the cars from uncoupling on the transition to grade.
Not necessarily a “given”. Remember, Kadee couplers have some vertical play in the draft gear which may allow the couplers to flex enough to let the auto racks to operate successfully and reliably in the problem spot. The only way to know for sure is try buy a pack or two and install them. At the very worst, those couplers could be used on tank ca
I have a vinyl someone gave me, it says “Close Enough Engineering - Probably OK”
Regular Kadees have that same vertical give - and all I’m saying is that , at least when there is tension ion the pullign faces, so train going from flat to up hill, rahter than train coming down transitioning to flat when the slack will be bunched in, the friction on the pulling faces will cause that vertical movement to happen, and when that is insufficient, then the pulling faces will start sliding past one another until the come uncoupled. I postulate that if the normal vertical movement is not enough, preventing it from going much further by forcing the knuckles to remain aligned is going to lift one of the two cars.
Enough to derail? perhaps not. Or it may be a 99 out of 100 thing where it runs right through 99 times out of 100, but that 100th time it comes off the rails.
–Randy
Hah hah. I learn all kinds of new words and idiom from my wife. It’s funny, we’ve been married since 2011 and suddenly after years, she will toss out a new word or saying she never mentioned in the previous 5 or 6 years. Her latest with the cold weather is: “it’s baltic”!! I think she taught me scouser last year, but I am not sure if she knows the origins so I’ll run that by her.
Another saying from WWII her family was saying a few years back is “stand by yer beds”. Supposedly what the soldiers were told when expecting an inspection. But people still say it when they are telling you to basically brace yourself for something - like news or whatever!
Of course, “keep calm and carry on” - which has been totally co-opted in recent years, was the byword in Great Briton during WWII and all the bombings.
I don’t know if you know, but my wife found a facebook group for British ex-pat’s in the US, which she reads for fun. Some of them live in the Washington DC area where we live - apparently one just up the road in Culpeper. In our local Pharmacy (Chemist as the Brits call it) there is a lady who immigrated here in the 8th grade and has lived here probably 30 years now. She gave my wife a “scratch” recipe for Yorkshire puddings - which we normally buy in a box mix in the international foods section at some grocery store. Also how to make mint sauce from scratch too. fun fun!
ha, I actuallly used “it’s baltic” yesterday, too funny. Take a look at this https://www.quora.com/Why-are-people-from-Liverpool-called-Scousers
If you have a separate roadbed (cork or homasote) and underlayment (plywood, foam, door), you should be able to do so minimally invasive surgery on the section of track to buy you the millimeter you need. If you directly laid the track on the layout surface, then you might damage your track trying this, depending on the material you used.
For the top of the hill (convex), you could push a small coping saw blade between the roadbed and the underlayment. Keep firm even pressure on the track and make a few passes with the coping saw blade. Start with an 8 inch pass, then a 4 inch pass, then a 2 inch pass, and finally a one inch pass, all centered on the sharpest part of the transition.
At the bottom of the hill (concave), use a knife to separate the roadbed from the underlayment, and add some shims in the same pattern as above. An 8 inch long shim, a 4 inch long shim, a 2 inch long shim, and finally an inch long shim. The shims should be pretty thin, probably somewhere in the 0.5mm to 1mm range.
My expat wife imigrated in 2011 but I swear I never heard her say baltic until last year. Keeps me on my toes! =P
I think she has played me some things on youtube and I had a hard time understanding what they were saying if they were in full blown slang. My wife has toned down her Geordie but still says “why-aye” and and it’s “baltic outside like” Or"had away and shyte". While we were living in Manassas she would get really frustrated because half the people in shops couldn’t under stand her - but many were just being lazy and weren’t even trying. Since we moved way out into a tiny town, that issue has largely gotten much better, most can understand her ok. Occasionally I do have to ask her to repeat what she said, but don’t all husbands? [:p]
It’s hard to say. on my last layout I deliberately made vertical easements to go from flat to 2.9% grade with a series of sections what were at gradual grade increasements. I went from 0, to 0.5 for a several feet to 1.2, to 1.6 to 2.2 to 2.5 to finally 2.9 (I don’t remember the exact grades but it was something like that. Of course having to go back and redo a stretch with intermediate grades covering around 12 to 14 feet might be harder than minimally invasive surgery. I guess it just depends on what it takes to remove the sharp transition.
If you have a foam base like I do, use a sur-form rasp to cut down the high spot. I have a 2% grade, double track, and used this trick to ensure a gentle transition on both top and bottom of the grade.
I thought the guys from Liverpool were called the Beatles? [swg] [swg] [swg]
Only if we were listening in the first place. [:-^]
Wayne