no, being a railfan is NOT un-amercian. i don’t know what word to use instead, but first we must DEFINE what un-american is. to me, un-american means burning of the stars and stripes. i love railroads and i love my country and i would never ever burn our flag even if i had a loaded gun to my head. this country was built on railroads. if you say being a railfan is un-american then you’d HAVE to say being a christian is un-Godly. see my point?
signed,
ironhorseman
the definition is: an initial comment made which uses the term(s) including, but not limited to: usa, the president, our flag, bill of rights, constitution, freedom, motherhood, apple pie, wwii, family values, pledge of allegiance, god [judeo-christian], the national anthem and any politician you voted for…
which comment is followed by someone saying, ‘oh yeah? well, that’s stupid!’ the one who said ‘stupid’ is un-american…
I live in Dearborn Michigan which has the largest Arab population in the USA. We don’t have a single hobby shop but we have more party stores and gas stations than anywhere in the world.
Who I think is un-american is law makers that made it legal for foreigners to come into this country and NOT pay income taxes for seven years. I see it all the time. E.G.: Ali has a party store or gas station for seven years, all the while sending U.S. dollars to family in Lebanon or wherever, and not pay any income tax. Just before seven years pass, his cousin Habib comes into the U.S to take ownership of the store and Ali goes back home. Habib pays no income tax and sends money back to his cousin Ali and the cycle continues.
Why don’t they have to pay income tax for seven years??
I don’t have the answer as to WHY… but I have seen the same thing. Makes me sick. And, I have to ask, “where are MY tax dollars going”? I certainly don’t see any benifit on my end…
I suppose that tax loophole was created decades ago to encourage immigrants to come here. Well, SOMEBODY has been asleep at the switch for a while, because that’s exactly what we DON’T need anymore. Our jobs are being exported to cheaper labor markets daily. We are getting to the point where we can’t even hold even. Soon there will be just two classes here, the rich crooked stock market abusers, and the newly arrived immigrants manning the conveniece stores, and gas stations where the prices will force the one time proud blue collar man onto a bicycle. Tax break for him? FORGET IT!!! The new age of slavery is upon us…
o.k., you’re right, it’s very familiar, but right… what next, a r.r. fan march on washington? we know our govt. agencies and elected politcians are corrupt, what else is new? the u.s. electorate is not known for dropping its remote to fight bad laws and corrupt lawmakers… we allow these so-called representatives a statute which automatically gives them raises, unless they vote against it…
it’s gigo, garbage in, garbage out… we allow these thieves an opportunity to steal our money, hand out special favors to corporate friends, and we are surprised when they do it…
how long would a child stand next to a cookie jar before he sneaks his hand in? this is human nature… if we are vigilant in the spending of our tax funds, we will see very little corruption… if we drop our vigilance, we can expect the ‘hand in the cookie jar’… on top of which, we keep filling the jar with more cookies!!
You have to ask someone who knows the tax laws why and when. I remember reading something about it years ago but don’t recall the details. However just about everyone I know has heard the same story. I just keep hearing it over and over. One story that was told to me recently, by someone who worked with an engineer from India at Ford Motor, saying the guy would brag about not having to pay income tax.
My theory is there was a time when cheap labor was hard to find and no one wanted low paying manual labor jobs. I think the intent was to attract foreign workers or help these people get established here in the USA. The I.R.S. didn’t exist at the time when immigrants of the late 19th and early 20th centuries came here. So it was probably argued by law makers (most likely they or their parents immigrated to America)that it would be unfair to tax immigrants untill they became established as U.S. citizens. We know those early immigrants had no intention of returning to the old world. But now, many of the Arabs I know have duel citizenship. Even their children speak of the old world as “their country”. They don’t think of themselves as Americans. The people who used to live across the street from me a few years ago, flew the Lebanese flag. Their kids would beat up the Iraqi kids (1991 war refugees) next door to me! They hated each other. I feel like I’m living in the Middle East.
So true Dude!
Hi Guys,
Yes, they do pay taxes. No, they dont pay federal income taxes if they are here on a work visa, (green card) but any US funds they send out of the country are taxed, and they have to pay a exchange fee if they convert it to their nations currency. And there is a limit to how much they can send. But they can be required to pay a state income tax, depending on which state they reside in. As for “owning” the store, if you research the tax records, you will find that the store is owned by a american company, usually a DBA, like Mom and Pop Enterprises doing business as Stop “N” Rob stores, or a group of people under a DBA, who own several stores. The hire these people for dirt wages as “managers”, and work them 12 to 16 hours a day under the threat of having their green card pulled. If, by some chance, the store is owned by the immigrant, you can bet he is a US citizen. Federal law prohibits a non citizen from owning a establishment that sells liquor and tobacco. And keep in mind the store collects and pays sales taxes, permit and licenseing fees, beer and liquor licenses, tobacco license and sales permit fees, along with the DBA fee. Not to mention property and school taxes. With all that in mind, it may be that a cousin, uncle or some relative who is a citizen may actually own the place, and let their relative run it, and make the money, or it may be that a local bank owns the place under a DBA, and leases it to the immigrant, which is perfectly legal. So “all the money” dosnt go overseas, most of it stays right there, in your community. I can tell you this because I have run several auto parts business, and am currently using a DBA for a small business I have, as a sideline to my railroad job. Plus, my neighbor across the street is a immigrant, a muslim, and a new US citizen. He worked for one of these groups, made up of several american business partners and their bank, and was required to put in on the average of 12 hours per day, no days off, for several years, before finding a real job. He sen
Very well said, Ed. --Ralph an Italian-Irish-Dutch-Engli***exas American and proud of it. (and by god- an Aggie, too)
Gig em…
I’ll tell you what is Un-American is those idiots in Washington who preach free trade as opposed to fair trade for example, last year South Korea sent 500,000 cars here while allowing only 2,800 American into there.
Now this stupid and expensive war they have got us into. We had Sadaam contained with the southern and northern no-fly zones, anything we didn’t like there, we bombed the heck out of it.
Maybe we wouldn’t be taxed so high if the government weren’t sending out these big checks to foreign addresses.
But somebody had it right, if we the American don’t give a hoot and completely vote to turn over the government every 10 to 12 years, then we have noone to blame but ourselves.
Pop
Being a railfan is not unAmerican except in the wee minds of the agents of the Federal Bureau of Ineptitude, most railroad cops and even a few regular police officers. Agents of the FBI (also known as “frequently bumbled investigations” would like a totalitarian state so they could control everyone. Railfanning is the extreme example of American freedom - hence the FBI can not understand it and therefore would like to eliminate it.
–Keep American free – railfan!!!
Signed,
BN fan
Sadly, the drunk idiot whose father´s band is his master puppeter put your country on risk because of the need of some of their band to make money with dark bussiness -as all around the world can read about what happens with the weapon´s industry- but can´t (nor want to) use a bit of that money to improve a safe, energy-saver, and enviromental-friendly transport as the train is.
Also, remember that a train needs less oil for moving people, their luggage or freight than all the cars, buses or trucks needed to move then, something that the mad texan dictator hates.
mr. geek-in-chief,
i resent your speaking out about political topics on ths forum and i really resent name-calling against our president… this magnitude of insult is beyond what the meter can read… we don’t deserve to read this on a r.r. forum, and you should bite your tongue… you don’t like it? fine! there’s an election next year, in case you haven’t heard… only 2 kinds of people cannot register: felons and the insane, but i wouldn’t be surprised if you only fit into 1 of those categories… there’s only 1 bad guy at the party in iraq, and we’re taking care of him real good…
i’m disgusted with posts in this forum that have no bearing on r.rs., but just rant about some un-related thing, such as the price of tea in china… writers can say what they want, i jus wi***hey’d find the appropriate place for it… this forum is about r.rs., got it? we do all things railroad here… not the president, not unemployment, not who stole my piggy bank, just railroads… if you have entered a class for which you are not registered, please contact the administration, but please don’t distract those of us who prefer to stay on topic… again, this is about railroads, not how this (or any other president) has ruined the country… that group is down the hall, please!
I’m very baffled as to what the point of this thread is. Who exactly is saying that railfanning is Un-American?
If this is a complaint about stepped up railroad security, well, all I can say is live with it. The railroads have some very real security concerns right now, which are unlikely to go away anytime soon…
Perhaps a history lesson, railroad and otherwise is in order. During the Second World War many transportation assets, including railroad facilities, were classified as sensitive installations and guarded accordingly. Believe it or not, you could actually get in trouble for photographing them. But people understood the need to protect the country. I very much doubt that you would have found many railfans complaining about how their rights were being violated back then(but then there was no internet). The fact is we are in a wartime situation right now, and not just with Iraq, I think reasonable security precautions are something we must all be understanding of. Think of it as a patriotic sacrifice in support of the war effort…
You don’t know what the point of this thread is?!? Did you not see the cover of the April 2003 TRAINS Magazine? Did you not read the article? Did you not see the survey and the articles on the home page of this very website weeks ago???
There have been at least 15 topics added about the subject and so far 340 replies and there will be more by tomorrow morning.
If I must spell it out for you then so be it. I started this discussion because I wanted to see what people defined as “Un-American” and how that differed from TRAINS’s opinion that being “Un-American” and being a “Railfan” are the same thing. They never actually said that in the article, but gauging by the forum responses that’s how everyone interpreted it.
I put my opinion up and tried to be very clear in my example of what “Un-American” is (see the 1st post in this series because I don’t need to retype it here).
Apparently people have taken this wrong way and started blaming immigrants and President Bush (see 4/1/03 6:46AM post). They forgot the forum policy: “No posting of advertisements, rude remarks, profanity, or personal attacks of others are permitted.
We reserve the right to edit and delete any posts.”
TRAINS Magazine, not I, have lumped railfans and un-Americans as one. I think their article was an irresponsible one. It was nothing more than history lesson of WWII security plus one modern day real life example. It was not really educational or useful at all. Maybe if they want to be useful than can write an article on railroad safety and Operation Lifesaver.
It is apparent that everyone in these forums are upset at the idea that their hobby is un-American. The only thing the forums have accomplished is to gather a somewhat national consensus of opinion. (in other words almost all of us agree on the topic).
I don’t really know if the FBI or other government agencies are really cracking down on railfans. Nobody has been able to prove this to me and the
Un-American - - (adj) a state of being where one finds contempt for the freedoms guaranteed by the US constitution. (see also- Bush, Rumsfeld, Hitler, Kruschev)
How’s that?
Well, I say, let’s close down the “bakery” and just say, “No more cookies!!!”
I’m tired of my tax dollars going to things that I don’t deem worthy. The so called Air-line crisis comes to mind here. Oh, sure, we better give the airlines another few billion of taxpayers dollars so the executives of Northwest, United, etc. won’t have to sell their vacation mansion in the Florida Keys…
I’d REALLY say what I think of them, but this is a “PG-13” website, and I would certainly offend some folks with candid comments…
Todd C.
OK, Rick, now define contempt.
And I did look to Bush and Rumsfeld and only saw pro-American in them.
God Bless Bush and Rumsfeld. Finally we have leaders that care for Americans as well as the rest of the world. Unlike Clinton, who made a mess of Mogadishu and Bosnia and Kosovo, and health care, and welfare, and left office with an economy headed for disaster