Simply
OTTS Rules
Remember the Ohio Roll Call thread [?]
Watch www.lots-trains.org for updates on the July 2007 LOTS convention that will be in Portland, OR. We hope a lot of O-gauge train folks will gather for that one!
Railroading has its roots in the State of Pennsylvania, In the Town of Honesdale is where the first steam engine ever ran & it was called the Stourbridge Lion as it was made over in Stourbridge,England & was shipped to New York City (it was disassembled) and put together by the men from Stourbridge,England & it had a Lion’s Face painted on the Front Boiler. A replica of this engine was built by the Delaware & Hudson Railroad in 1932 for their 100th anniversary & now resides in the Wayne County historical society in Honesdale,Pa. This replica is a actual working steam engine that is preserved for future generations to come. The original Lion brought over from England was too heavy for the Iron Rails it rode upon & was abandoned in the woods near Honesdale.Years Later the boiler from the Lion was used in a Machine Shop in Carbondale,Pa & bits & pieces of it were recovered & sent to the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. for public display. No one knows what happend to the boiler after the Machine Shop Discarded it.(Most likely sold it for junk) The reason for Pennsylvania’s role as the Birthplace of the American Railroad is on account of the Anthracite Coal found there & this also helped start the Iron & Coal industry as the Coal was used to make Pig Iron which is used to make Steel & this started the Industrial Revolution of the 1800s as well. The Iron & Steel Industry originated in Scranton,Pa which is 30 miles Southwest of Honesdale & where Iron Ore deposits were originally found & depleted which resulted in the loss of Scranton’s Iron & Steel industry. The Foundries were dismantled in Scranton & sent to the south side of Buffalo,NY due to the Great Lakes shipping and access to Iron Ore from Minnesota. This is why the Iron & Steel business was concentrated in Cities like Cleveland,Pittsburgh,Chicago,& Buffalo. And other industries soon followed as well. This is why the Railroads,Iron & Steel, & other heavy industies were concentrated here in the East/Northeast section of the Country. Take Care all.
Tim thanks for the invite. It would be a pleasure to see your trains in person. I guess it would be a good idea to leave the mini van at home and bring the truck if heading your way! And if you ever get down on the valley floor, stop in. You can’t miss us. We’re the alfalfa field surrounded by housing developments! The quietest neighbor we now have is the Spokane Gun Club.[:D]
Rod
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by 1688torpedo
Railroading has its roots in the State of Pennsylvania, In the Town of Honesdale is where the first steam engine ever ran & it was called the Stourbridge Lion as it was made over in Stourbridge,England & was shipped to New York City (it was disassembled) and put together by the men from Stourbridge,England & it had a Lion’s Face painted on the Front Boiler. A replica of this engine was built by the Delaware & Hudson Railroad in 1932 for their 100th anniversary & now resides in the Wayne County historical society in Honesdale,Pa. This replica is a actual working steam engine that is preserved for future generations to come. The original Lion brought over from England was too heavy for the Iron Rails it rode upon & was abandoned in the woods near Honesdale.Years Later the boiler from the Lion was used in a Machine Shop in Carbondale,Pa & bits & pieces of it were recovered & sent to the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. for public display. No one knows what happend to the boiler after the Machine Shop Discarded it.(Most likely sold it for junk) The reason for Pennsylvania’s role as the Birthplace of the American Railroad is on account of the Anthracite Coal found there & this also helped start the Iron & Coal industry as the Coal was used to make Pig Iron which is used to make Steel & this started the Industrial Revolution of the 1800s as well. The Iron & Steel Industry originated in Scranton,Pa which is 30 miles Southwest of Honesdale & where Iron Ore deposits were originally found & depleted which resulted in the loss of Scranton’s Iron & Steel industry. The Foundries were dismantled in Scranton & sent to the south side of Buffalo,NY due to the Great Lakes shipping and access to Iron Ore from Minnesota. This is why the Iron & Steel business was concentrated in Cities like Cleveland,Pittsburgh,Chicago,& Buffalo. And other industries soon followed as well. This is why the Railroads,Iron & Steel, & other heavy industies were concentrated here in the East/
I thought it was Treverthic in merry ole England!
Very good Keith. Along with the coal and steel production in Pennsylvania, you had the one-time manufacturing power of the northeast, and in particular New York State. At one time, NY’s manufacturing output equaled that of entire other countries, nevermind other states. Even the beloved Alco locomoties were made right here in NYS. It has nothing to do with one state being better than the other… it’s just history. These manufacturing jobs were once good paying jobs that supported families and gave them some extra spending money too. With so many railroads in these states, the interest in model trains is only natural. Certainly in recent decades, NYS has little to brag about. Cities that were once major manufacturing centers are now shadows of their once former glory. The “Empire State” has rapidly become the Roman Empire State, as my gag location line says.
Take just the states of New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts and the commonwealth of Pennsylvania and list the railroads that ran through these areas:
- The Pennsylvania Railroad
- New York Central
- Wabash
- Nickle Plate Road
- Lehigh Valley
- Lackawanna
- Erie (later Erie Lackawanna)
- PIttsburg and Lake Erie
- Reading
- Central of New Jersey
- Boston and Maine
- New Haven
- Boston and Albany
- Delaware and Hudson
- Chesapeak and Ohio
- Baltimore and Ohio
- The Long Island Railroad
- Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Line
- The Rutland
And I’m probably forgetting some, nevermind the later mergers and consolodations. You’d be hardpressed to name four other states that had so many large and important historical railroads running though them. Given the one-time population density and the one-time big passenger/commuter service, it is no wonder that the northeast US was the big area for model trains and probably still is.
No offense y’all. God sees us all with equal value. And God Bless
Railroads played a big part in winning the Civil War (although some folks in my neck of the woods are still fighting it)–that’s a fact that is not and cannot really be disputed. And guess which side had the better railroads, and far more of them! [;)]
I think one factor that explains the concentration of model railroaders in the northeast and midwest is this: basements.
Far less common in the south and west. It’s harder for us to find space to build a layout unless you use: a spare bedroom, the garage or an auxiliary building.
Brianel -
On the list you have of Lionel service stations, I think it must be out of date. At present, there are only 4 in Alabama that are still operating. The others have all closed over the past few years, unfortunately. Two in the Montgomery area closed in the past two years.
Since my wife and I go to Alabama every summer with my in-laws (I have cool in-laws), I thought that number seemed awfully high. When I’ve looked in phone books for a train store to visit, I generally haven’t been able to find much. You had me excited for a minute.
When we’ve gone antiquing, I’ve only ever found one really overpriced Lionel Scout set. That’s as opposed to the five really overpriced Scout sets I’ll find if I go out looking in St. Louis. 
Dr. John, I can’t argue with you on that one. I took the numbers directly off Lionel’s very own website. It probably makes Lionel look good to have as many dealers listed as possible, ie: look how dealers carry our products!
On the other hand, I know Lionel has pretty strict dealer requirements, so why they would have so many listed that weren’t up to snuff or no longer in business is beyond me.
You guys are right about the basement factor to a degree. The basement was were the layout got built. But it was still the kinds of good paying jobs that were once so plentiful combined with real trains being everywhere, combined with Lionel’s aggressive marketing which aimed the products at KIDS and their DADS.
Today there is no aggressive advertising and the trains are being bought by those one-time kids who are now adults.
It’s also a well known fact that the northeast US states have seen the greatest losses of population in the past 2 decades. While many other states continue to gain, we continue to lose. LIttle doubt in my mind that some of the modelers in other states were originally from the northeast looking for better paying jobs, or just a job - and they brought along their interest in trains.
Of the places I’ve lived in or spent considerable time in during my lifetime, I’ve found the greatest concentration of train stores and hobbyists in Ohio and Pennsylvania; followed by Milaukee, Chicago, and the D.C./Baltimore area. I’ve found the fewest train stores (but not necessarily smallest number of hobbyists) in Iowa, Hawaii, here in Southwest Virginia, and in Charlotte, NC. Lots of hobby activity–and stores–in California and Florida, as well as in Texas and Colorado. My guess is the deep South–Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana–and some midwestern states have the lowest overall hobby participation and lowest number of local train stores to choose from.
D— right!!! [about the war still going]
We had 4 train stores [not just a hobby shop] in Wake County. Two died [one was the old most established store]. Mainly due to poor management. Now we have the two that are very large. One, in a small mall [with layout in the center of the mall] has all things needed [or can get] to build a model RR. Prices are MSRP. Only get my paints and etc from that one. Then you have “Miss Edna”. Big building and lots of stock. Has the minimum of maintenance supplies for toy trains. Repair facility. Has only O and S gauge. Prices are outstanding as low overhead.
I travel the USA [as most know]. I hit the Yellow Pages in all the cities I visit. I find most major cities the same. One with MSRP and one or more that are reasonable in prices. I do not understand how the MSRP stores seem to be going strong. I have visited them all and there are always folks in there buying and being sucked in by the store owner. Lots of Grandparents remembering the old Lionel days. I want to walk up to them and say, “You are being taken price wise.”
I will admitt that up Nawth, there seems to be more train stores. I just visited one in Bridgeport OH. Very reasonable prices so I bought rolling stock. Had it shipped UPS. Got the big box with 4 cars in 3 days. I only paid $6.70 shipping for all 4 cars. Now this guy lost big time on the sale. Told me to pass the word that he would mail order and ship for anyone. Maybe us Southerners are a little smarter. [;)]
God bless you Chief! You made me laugh with your one single word “nawth.” I had to say it several times… [%-)] how sad that I cannot properly pronounce the very area of the country I live in!! [8]
Guess that could be another reason why we “nawtherners” come down yonder south… so we can finally learn how to talk!! [:D]
Brian, when you admitt you love sweet ice tea and grits, we will do a “laying on of hands” and you will become an honorary Southerner. [:D] On the Nawth thing. Got a good friend that is from MI originally. She is a lawyer for the NC Utilities Comm. Sent her an email with that word. She called me and wanted to know what that word ment. [:D] As Ricky said to Lucy, I “splained” it to her.
Means we will sit home and mail order our trains from you Nawtherners and let you lose money. [:0][;)]
About a year ago I asked circulation to send me a state-by-state (and country-by-country) listing of our sales. If memory serves, if Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York states were nuked, I believe that would take down about 40% of our readership. I’ll dig that out when I get to the office Monday.
I’d have to go along with Dr. John on this one - lack of basements and habitable attics out here in the West account of the ranch house style of architecture so prevalent out here. When I received my first asked-for American Flyer Trainset for Christmas in 1954, We lived at that time in Collinsville, Illinois. There seemed to be many train stores nearby as well as many individuals with train layouts. Seems like every single one of my friends had a layout in his basement. All of the local kids had a great deal of inspiration due to the fact that Collinsville, being located in the greater St. Louis metropolitan area, had a lot of railroads running around. Back then most of the US population was concentrated East of the Mississippi and that was during the time toy trains were most popular - so it is obvious that most of the old collectible post war trains are located there and that the interest is there.
I did most of my growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area. I can’t remember ever living in a home with a basement or attic large enough for a toy train layout. So if you wanted a train layout, it would have to go in a spare bedroom, the garage or an outbuilding. Because of the nice weather out here on average, I know that only a few people actually keep their cars in their garages so it seems the garage is a favorite location for train layouts. If you are fortunate enough to have a family or spouse that is willing to let you allocate a spare bedroom to a train layout , chances are it will be HO or N Scale so that you can cram more railroading into that limited space. So that explains the relative dearth of O gauge ( scale ) model railroads out here as opposed to the Eastern U.S.
Large scale trains and their quarters notwithstanding, what I like about living out here in the West is … ELBOW ROOM. Even though California is the most populous state, it is also a pretty large state and where I live is a sparsely settled area with lots of open space - plenty of trees, clean water and healthful,
There is one other item for consideration as to the disparity of toy trains between the NE and the rest of the country. Up north once winter rolls around what else is there to do ? [:I] [:o)] [:D]
[#ditto] Doug !! I was going to say the same thing, as a kid growing up in the winter, I had my trains for the winter, & off on my bike in the summer. Of course we did a lot of sled riding then too, & I delivered papers & all, but was still fun to look forward to play with the trains when everything else was done !! [:D]
Thanks,
Not exactly. Cold winters cause 9 month population boom. [;)]