I am beginning to plan my second layout, my fist was 9’x5’ table top and that taught me a lot I followed a Kalmbach how to book and it worked out well, but now its time to move on. I would love to hear opionions on the different software packages for layout design Planit, railCad, rr-track - what worked well, ease of use, limitations etc,etc, I have some but not a lot of computer skills, and very limited experience with drawing programs - any advise would be appreciated
I’d recommend XTrkCad from sillub. I’ll admit that the learning curve is a bit steep, but the tutorials it has are very helpful. I’d say it’s on-par with some of the other CAD programs, albeit they have more “treats” (3D views and the like). However, you can’t beat the price - it’s free. And, I think that it’d be better to get a free program and hate it than getting a $50+ program and hating it…
Probably the simplest one is RTS from www.atlasrr.com which is the Atlas track people. Not surprisingly, it is based on Atlas sectional track, but it also includes the ability to use flex-track. It can also display and place a few buildings. I used it for my layout, and it worked OK. (I am a computer geek, but I would prefer to use simpler programs if they meet the need.)
The program doesn’t handle grades very easily, and it’s not going to give you a nice 3D picture or let you actually “run” trains on the layout. Still, I found it was powerful enough to do the job. Now that the layout is built, I had a hard-drive crash and lost the whole thing. I’m going to try a few more options to resurrect the hard drive data, but if I can’t recover the files I won’t be too upset.
Wvey,
We used 3rd PlanIT. It was very straight forward. We liked it because you could select which loco and cars that you wanted to run and acturally preview the layout. If you mail order it, you get a great instruction booklet. You might miss that if you download the software.
Sue
I’d recommend XTrkCad becauae its a free download and it is retty easy to use. I, myself, have Auto CAD LT 2000 which can do about anything. I have a fairly extensive library of track templates and RR objects. I use a set of digital calipers to take measurements of what I want to draw and transfer them to the computer using the CAD program. My track templates are actual measurements taken fom the various track components and TOs. so they are fairly accurate representations of the real thing. Tweet
I just purchased 3rd PlanIt this summer. I find it the exact opposite. I don’t think it is straight forward at all. It refuses to connect turnouts with flex track giving the error “the connection point is within a turnout”. It can’t connect two curves going the opposite direction even if it has 10 feet to make the appropriate “S-curve” in. The sectional track libraries are incomplete (the Atlas Code 83 library doesn’t even have a standard custom line #6 in it). This is too bad because it is one of the first products I’ve seen that has at least some of the Roco/Atlas code 83 track. It can never remember which direction a track segment is placed so that the next connection to it over lays the track rather than extending it. It does not properly run a grade through several track segments that have been grouped together. Nor does it always pass grade information on to the next track segment. I had to manually specify the height of each end of each segment. Then if I missed by 1/32" it would not reconnect the track. It frequently abnormally terminates and crashes - fortunately it has an auto save that has rescued me several times. I found the official line on this problem from the Yahoo site. It is that there is a problem with MY video driver, however none of the other zillions of programs I have running seem to have this problem. I’ve found at least three discrepancies between what the tutorials say to do and what must really be done. The 3rd PlanIT people have not responded to any of my e-mails except the first one when I gave them money. I have figured out ways to force it to do what I need, but that is the exact opposite of what a good software program is supposed to do. Almost everything this was supposed to make easier isn’t. One notible exception
I used Cadrail to design my current layout. While it took some getting used to, I’ve been very happy with it on the whole. The thing to remember with these design programs is that they are just drawing programs with a model railroading veneer. There is no concept of optimization (i.e., automatically connecting two sections of track in the “best” way possible). So you will have to try lots of possible combinations before settling on a final design. However, you would have to do the same thing with pencil and paper and a computer program both speeds up the process and greatly improves the accuracy.
Texas Zepher,
All the problems you mention with 3rd PlanIt can be easily solved with a bit of additional explanation about how things are supposed to work in the program. If you would post your specific problems on the Yahoo group someone will be able to help you solve them and get your layout well on track. The two specific items about connecting turnouts and settting grades are quite puzzling at first, but are actually easy to resolve.
To anyone thinking of using design software to design a layout, I recommend reading this insightful bit of wisdom on the Layout Design SIG’s web site from expert layout design software user Charlie Comstock.
Charlie’s comments may burst your bubble about what layout design software will do for you, but at least you’ll enter into using the software with both eyes open!
CadRail is very powerful and has a very strong engineer / draftsman feel to its interface. If you’re a hard-headed technical type, it may be best suited to you. 3rdPlanit! has a somewhat more “artsy” feel to it - it you take more of the artistic approach to things, it might be a better fit. Both should get you where you need to go. And look at the freebie programs mentioned above, too. While generally more limited than the purchase programs, they may do all you need.
I have used CADRail for over 10 years and really like it. I have used it for designing everything from home remodelling plans to my HO layout plans. If you have used any CAD tools before, it is very easy to pick up on. It will do 3-d but it is not as ‘slick’ as 3rd PlanIt. However, I don’t like the way some of the drawing tools work in 3rd PlanIt. There is a fairly good library of track in both sets of software. The library of buildings for 3rd PlanIt is much smaller than CADRail. If you would like to discuss either or both of these 2 programs, shoot me an e-mail and we can set up a time to talk.
Some of my observations are (remember that I do not claim to be nearly as far up on the learning
curve on 3rd Planit as I am on CADRail):
3d rendering in 3pi is better
Running simulated trains on the simulated layout in 3pi is better/easier
Applying hills, valleys, etc. to the terrain in 3pi is easier
Toolkit for building trackwork is easier and more intuitive to use in
CADRail (CR)
They both have the feature that if you build it like you designed it, and you designed it without kinks or insufficient clearances, the layout will not have kinks or clearance problems.
I have built a fairly extensive library of structure kit footprints for CR - they are on the CR forum website. The 3-d structure library for 3pi is not very large so you have to be prepared to either (1) use the ones that are available and plan on ‘adjusting’ locations when you build it, (2) use footprints for your actual structures and not be able to see anything but the ‘foundation’ when in 3-d, or (3) draw up your own 3-d buildings for the
kits/structures that you have or plan to get… I am in the process of building ‘featureless boxes’ for each of my structures so I can see the overall effect in 3-d and will put them out in the 3pi forum files when I get them done but I don’t know how soon that will be.
3rd PlanIt is my favorite track planning design program. It has a high learning curve up front, but once you get the hang of it the process of making layout designs becomes quicker. The drawings are very accurate and printing 1:1 layout templates are a boon to my layout construction.
3rd PlanIT TIPS:
The error referenced in an earlier post with turnout or curve within the point of a turnout is an error I still get too. I just change the radius of the curve or move the curve up or down, or left or right depending on the placement on the design. One trick I learned with making curves is to draw the full circle for track at the desired radius, then I slice the circle into 4 segments, then I delete three of the segments and then use the Align Select tool to click, drag, and drop the curve segment to the desired tangent line. When I am connecting curves I use the Connect with easements tool to draw the tangent line between the two curves.
When I get the error “line is connected to a turnout” I just add a short 1" or 2" sectional piece of track to the end of the turnout and this usually omits that error again.
When I start with a layout design plan I use the Layout Design Wizard and select Rooms. Then I select fractional inches (32 per inch) the room type (square, rectangle, L-Shaped, or Alcove), then I set the wall lengths, then I check off all the Track and Other layers so I have all the options available. Then I save this as a room template, i.e. Room01_103106. Then I pull up the template and rename it when I want to start drawing a layout. Each iteration of the file I save as a new name so that I can maintain a version control and also go back to earlier versions if the new one does not work out as I like.
It has been almost a year since my husband and I started the benchwork for our current layout. Both of us worked on the design for 6 months with 3rd PlanIt, before settling on our plan. Things went together a lot smoother than the previous layout which was free drawn.
I am glad that someone else had a positive result.
Sue
As usual, Joe Fugate has provided a useful link on the issue. Charlie Comstock’s comments in that link seem to mirror what I’ve found.
While it CAN be done, ( and it’s fun to see the level of precision that is possible — just keep magnifying the view of a track connection you’re about to make ) it’s not necessary. Most of us here on the forum are human. Therefore, we won’t be able to achieve that level of precision. You can’t spike rails in place to within 0.0000001 inches. ( That’s a random small number, but you get the idea. )
I also use 3rdPlanIt, as it happens. Others will also do the job.
-Ed