Detailed interior - you gotta be kidding me!

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I wanted to get some PRR Spectrum heavyweight cars from Bachmann as I was told they had “detailed interiors”. Well I bought some cheap off ebay to experiment with - thank gosh I did. Interiors? A bit of plastic that does not cover the levers for the trucks and great big black screws in the middle of the floor?

I tried a HO scale plastic person in the seat and it looked like Arnold Schwarzenegger sitting in a child’s car seat. Do you need to use 1:160 scale in these cars?

I know it sounds like I am venting here (which I am) but it would be nice to be able to “spruce up” a passenger car - or whatever - make it look more realistic and not have to jump through hoops just to do it. As a newbie I am looking to “Improve” the realism of my layout but these cars ain’t gonna cut it.

Does anyone have any advice on how to get a bunch of PRR cars that look good and are lighted and can be made to look more realistic. I am open to other makes/brands. I hear that BLI may be releasing a line of PRR cars.

Anyhoo, let me know your thoughts on this topic.

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Hi Chris

I feel your frustration. Most ‘HO’ figures do not fit nicely into most ‘HO’ vehicles, be they passenger cars or automobiles or whatever. You have to get really nasty with your razor saw to make them even come close to fitting. Older Preiser seated figures may be the exception. Preiser tends to make their stuff smaller than most other suppliers.

If you want to try to stick with the passenger cars you have, one solution is to buy the bulk 1/100 scale figures from eBay (read - China). Unfortunately you still have to cut their legs off and repaint them if you want anything even close to realistic colours. (Why do the Chinese think that every third person is dressed in purple?).

The reality is that if you were to measure the size of the seat backs you would find that they are way too thick to be accurate. I guess that is one of the limitations that manufacturers have to face to keep costs down.

Its easier to cut the figure than to cut the seat. I have one passenger car that came fitted with passengers, repainted and all. They look good. I’m pretty sure they are 1/100, and they are definately missing their lower limbs, as are all of the drivers and passengers that I have put into my vehicle fleet.

Time to get the hobby knife and saw out. Watch your fingers!

Dave

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Dave,

Your reply is kinda weird - because all the things you mentioned I thought I would have to do. I love all those purple painted people - got plenty - but I found another supplier from china that actually does paint them in other colors - but still wont fit.

Thanks for the reply - now I know I ain’t as dumb as I feel right now. I don’t know if it’s worth the effort for the Spectrum Cars. I was going to repaint the interiors and do some DC to DCC modifications - but if I have to cut my figures mid thorax just to fit in the seats then maybe it’s a lost cause.

Thanks for the tip on the hobby knife - I did slice into my thumb trying to remove some plastic from a model the other day.

When does the football season start?

4

Are you looking only for PRR heavyweight cars or would PRR streamlined cars work on your layout?

The Walthers Rolling Stock series has finished interiors and, while not lighted, are factory setup for lighting.

I have five of the PRR streamlined cars, and they are very nice.

Rich

5

I think some of us did…

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/246583.aspx

snips from that thread:

From gmpullman:

Chris,

Any reason you are sold on the Spectrum cars? I don’t know if they have improved them since the ones that I bought several years ago… (you can have them if you want them) and I’m not bashing Bachmann, but I didn’t have much luck getting them to operate very well. The draft gear was the worst. They have a goofy swivel setup that is tied to the truck kingpin and the poor fit and engineering makes the coupler box sag terribly.

From ACY

Chris — I agree with Ed that the Bachmann cars have some issues. They are being re-released at a much higher price, and I hope the price increase is justified by a redesign of the coupler arrangement.

Again, the aforementioned Rivarossi 60 foot cars (in the linked thread) might be a good choice for the size of your layout and the curves you are trying to negotiate.

Many of the Walthers cars are available and they have very decent interior work, some of the heavyweights are molded in appropriate colors, the lightweight cars are molded in a basic beige color. Walthers electrical pickups are pretty reliable and the two tabs at the inside car ends can be used fo

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Chris

Having gone through the same predicament there isn’t a simple fix for passenger/interior problems. I found some 1:100 seated figures from Turkey that don’t come in purple. I bought a three pack of old IHC interiors several years ago that the seats were pretty close to scale. I cut them up and made molds to cast my own interiors. That works out better for me because I have no idea where the manufacturers come up with their interior designs. I find I do much better building my own interiors, they may not be rivet counter proof but I like the way they turned out.

I bought a new release Bachmann Full Dome and kitbashed it to a SP ¾ Dome Lounge car, I used the Bachmann interior and loaded it with a mix of 1:87 & 1:100 Turkey people and it came out pretty good. The new Bachmann Dome car tracks very well. I removed the Bachmann 12 volt lights and installed 1½ volt GOWs and my home brew voltage regulator as that is my lighting standard. The Bachmann dome windows are tinted so painting the passengers up top isn’t necessary.

Dome Car

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If the car has seats or you add them, then passengeers and lighting is a must. I have done a number of passenger cars and vehicles, and I can not think of one that I did not have to cut the figure to fit. You can not see legs and feet through the windows

This is a test shot to see what ‘fluroescent lights’ in a LW car would look like

Also a Greyhound bus, some figures fit better than others

A 1951 Studebaker Convertible, figure mods not really noticable unless you look close.

8

Remember, folks, that our passenger cars are scale sized on the outside, not the inside. The windows on a Branchline coach (otherwise a fine kit), for example, are about 1/16" thick. In HO scale, that’s over 5" thick. Then you have the floor. In real life, there’s no metal weight, or coupler cranks, or whatever else there is to make the floor thicker. Depending on how the scale car is built, this can raise the floor, which in effect makes the seats shorter (or raises them too high for the windows).

There’s also the problem that real people are kind of squishy and so are the seat cushions. Putting scale rigid people with rigid scale clothing on scale rigid seats means that something won’t fit too well.

Lastly, there’s the thickness of the seat backs. A manufacturer has to make them so that they line up with the windows yet be strong enough not to fall apart in the manufacturing process. This means they are made extra thick, which reduces the room for any figures.

If you want truly scale seats, you can build your own out from Red Cap kits. They are etched brass and look great.

Sorry to say, regardless of what you choose, you’re going to have to “jump through hoops” to spruce up a car interior with people. There’s no way around it.

BTW, if you want quality passenger cars, try Rapido, Walthers, Branchline (now Atlas), BLI, or brass. Bachmann Spectrum cars make good stand-ins, but I wouldn’t invest a ton of time or money into them. They are better than the old Rivarossi & Con-Cor cars from the 1970’s, but they are not 100% scale. From the Pullman Project website:

http://pullmanproject.com/PullSides4.JPG

If you keep the Bachmann cars, get rid of those awful cranks and convert them to rigid body mount couplers. Jay-Bee used to make a coupler pad

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Paul

I was wondering if Bachmann made improvements with their “crank drive” coupler. The new full dome car I have the coupler system works very good. It is my only Bachmann car so I don’t know if they changed it. I have very tight radius turnouts (#4) in my yard so their crank system works well there. All the rest of my passenger cars are 72’ Athearn shorties with the Athearn Talgo Trucks. I haven’t had any problems with couplers or derailing.

One of the things that impressed me with the full dome car is the Bachmann chair backs, they are very thin compared to other interior chairs. Everything else is the same, I had to use the bade or flush cutters on feet and a file on their butts to make the 1:100 figures fit the chairs. Building up my own interiors I still have to cut off the feet of both seated and standing figures because of the thickness of the floors.

Mel

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Thanks for all the replies. Let me address then in order.

Rich - when you say factory set up for lighting does that mean the trucks have electrical pickups already installed ?

Ed - your right about that thread having info on other cars - I should have gone back and re-read it.

Mel - thanks for posting that photo - I’m thinking that I may have another go at these spectrum coaches - Having to “improve” the interior is all part of the fun. I guess I was just a tad bit disappointed and unmotivated by those spectrum cars.

George - thanks for posting your photos. I have a “Mels Drive-in” and have HO scale cars with HO scale people that look realistic. It’s just these passenger cars that phased me.

Paul - Thanks for the technical info. Now at least I know why they are too small - even if it presents me with yet another challenge in converting these cars.

On a lighter note - I just got me one of these t-shirts

That should motivate me to get working on the conversion for the Spectrum coaches :-))

P.S.

Ed, I tried those strip LED’s in one of the cars and it looked pretty good. I took your advice and used a brown sharpie to darken the led and it gave of a nice “natural” glow in the car. I’ll have to figure out what resistor to use as the LED strip does heat up with too much power - however, too little and you can’t see any light. I may have to invest in those LED strips that have a built-in variable potentiometer - if thats the correct term (it was way back in my time).

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The Walthers cars have metal strips mounted to the underside of the car body above each axle. Metal screws protrude up from the trucks and made constant contact with the metal strips to provide track power for lighting. The Walthers Lighting Kit is purchased separately.

Rich

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Thanks for the info Rich.

I found some photos of the cars on google images. Those cars look great and the detail is amazing.

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The Walthers Rolling Stock series offers a great line of passenger cars, not only in the PRR road name but many others as well. I have the PRR cars, UP cars, ATSF cars, and C&NW cars, all streamlined, and the heavyweight Wabash and NYC cars.

The Walthers cars do require some fine tuning on the trucks, diaphragms and couplers for optimal performance, but no big deal. The detail on the Walthers cars is surpassed only by the Rapido passenger cars, but the Walthers cars are less fragile than the Rapido cars.

Rich

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Paul, Mel and Chris

I have used this Kadee swing arm coupler on longer cars with success.

http://www.kadee.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=359

I’m afraid if Chris tries a rigid mount to the car floor there will not be enough swing to allow for his tight curves. It is available from some sellers at about $5. a pair.

IMHO the Walthers coupler pocket and swing arrangement is very dependable.

I have noticed that in the most recent passenger cars I have purchased from Walthers there is an included coupler box arm and carrier that allows for a slightly more extended coupling presumably to allow for 18" radius curves.

Ed

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bLI just announced p70 cars that will probably be better For $90.00 per car they better be.

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Unlike a lot of folks around here I don’t know what it means to “announce” a line of cars. Does that mean it will be in stores soon - or does it mean we are getting ready to deliver these cars for Christmas 2017?

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If past history is The norm that may be optomistic

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For detailed interiors, you need thin walls, thin windows, and thin seats, none of which are typically provided in R-T-R cars. For your time period, PRR T1 locos would typically haul coaches of PRR classes P85 and/or P70gsR, with earlier P70 variants used as rider cars on mail trains. The P85 coaches were available from Centralia Shops several years ago. Nobody makes the P70gsR, but Laser Horizons makes P70gsR sides, of which I have some on order. I’m planning to chop up some old third-rate P70’s for parts to build those P70gsR’s properly. Those Laser Horizon sides will be thin, so that will help. My PRR mail trains will use BLI P70’s as riders.

When will they show up? I’ve seen items show up at the hobby shop during the same week they are announced, and I’ve seen delays of five years or more. Sometimes the item never materializes.

Tom

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Tom,

Thanks for that reply - so I don’t hold my breath intil the BLI P70’s show up :slight_smile: