I’ve chosen to model a freelanced bridge line railroad. Now, with the limits of what real railroads had off, my mind goes bonanza looking at different power the line could run. The railroad is supposed to serve as a connector for the Boston & Maine Railroad between the Hoosac Tunnel Route and Northampton on the southern part of the Conn Riv. As a result, the line requires helper operations. The line is meant to have a close, harmonious relationship with the B&M, so locomotive practices should follow B&M manners. The line is modeled in the early 1980’s before the advent of Guilfraud (kudos to bmtrains for that one). I’m placing the railroad’s hub at Northampton on the Conn Riv.
This leads me into the question. How should I develop a plausible locomotive fleet?
I guess the answer begins with: Well, how much power does the fictional railroad need? The Mainline runs are powered by B&M power, which will be GP38-2s and GP40-2’s on the fictional railroad’s Mountain Main and GP7s and GP9s on the Conn River Line. So the fictional line needs no power for mainline runs
However, for the fictional railroad’s mountain main, helper power is needed. So what kind of power should it be? Well, constraints include that the power should be EMD (B&M was almost completely EMD) and it must be from the early 1980’s or before. Let’s assume road finances aren’t a problem.
GP-38’s and GP40’s would make sense, since that was what the B&M used. But could I go with SD45s or other power? Would that make sense?
Another thought was, in that period the lovely B&M Minuteman scheme was long gone. The power that wore it was traded in for new power. Well, let’s say the fictional line had money and bought those old F Units in Maroon, providing B&M money for new power. How plausible is it to have F Units running as helpers?
What other power would be well suited that I should think about for helper services? There is a significant tunnel on the line, but route elevation remains low so lo
Alright as a fellow New England modeler, I’d suggest the following:
For the mountain helpers I’d go with some SD40s or SD40-2s these were incredibly common, the prototype being the best selling locomotive of all time. in the Northeast they were used as pushers by Conrail but were widespread enough that anyone could have used them.
For the locals, Alcos would be cool, but if cost was not a problem I think most railroads would have liked to standardize their power behind one manufacturer (to ease shop costs.) As such, GP9s would be very popular. However, Remember that lines like Maine Central (B&M’s buddy) really liked GE U-boats, so a U18B or U23B could be used too.
For the yard switcher, an Alco S-Series or EMD SW-Series would be very likely. The B&M and New Haven both stocked GE 44 Tonners for light switching especially in urban areas.
Now thinking about what’s avalible from manufacturers now, here’s the options I’d go with:
GP38-2 from Walthers Proto 2000
GP7 from Atlas
SD40 from Kato
SD40-2 from Broadway Limited Imports
GP9 from Walthers Proto 2000
Alco S-Series from either Atlas or Walthers Proto 2000
EMD SW-Series from Broadway Limited Imports or Walthers Proto 2000
Just my opinion, but if your railroad connects with B&M, you’d be better off not cloning the B&M. Otherwise you’re just doing two versions of the same thing. If B&M used GM products in the time you’re modelling, you should use Alco’s or Baldwins or something different. It’s kinda like paintschemes, when I came up with my freelance road’s paint colors, I looked at colors the roads in the area I was modelling used, then picked a color none of them were using - that way, my railroad didn’t look like a copy of some other road in the area.
Make a grid of the service and the number of trains / hours day. Then decide how many locos (or sets of locos) are needed. Decide how much horse power in needed. Choose the loco(s) to match.
This is what I got from the write up so far. Looks like 2 SW-1500s, and 13 GP40-2s or GP38-2s (configured as 6 sets of two units and 1 spare) would do the job.
If finances aren’t a problem it seems they would have SD40-2 or GP40-2s. Or if the 600 hp of an SD45-2 would allow a single engine helper than that might have been an option. For the number of units it also depends on how long the helper grade is (going out of Denver to the south the helper grade is almost 90 miles long). Can a single locomotive handle all trains running up and down, or is the volume too much so that a loco has to go to the top and wait for all traffic to clear. Then all the helpers back down (like at night, or following the next train going the opposite direction) together in a gaggle?
In the early 1980’s? I would say not likely.
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Now, the fictional line also runs 2 locals as well as a yard switcher. What power would have been well suited? B&M was a big user of the RS units and S units, and I definitely will be applying both. My plan was to place an S unit in the yard and an RS on a local swit
There are quite a few choices that can be used for helpers in your era.
My preference would be SD35 or SD40 or dash2s. I model B&O and tend to like the use of the SD35s. These were used almost exclusively for helper service. These helpers would be better helping GP40s, Dash8s, Uboats etc.
If you are using some of the older geeps for this line you may want to use some older 6 axle helpers. SD35 or newer just doesn’t seem right to be helping GP9s or 18s, maybe the other way around.
Wow, thanks for the help and advice! I have comments to make on your points and more questions that have sprung from them but unfortunately I cannot make them right now as it’s late and I have examinations to prepare for. Just wanted to drop a word that your help is very much appreciated.
The answer to the first question determine the age of the first units your railroad purchased. The later they were purchased, the more likely your railroad would repair. In low mileage service a typical diesel would last 30-40 years. So if your railroad dieselized in the late 50’s, early 60’s it would be buying GP-9’s and GP-18’s. They would be starting to get a little long in the tooth by the 1980’s, but still very serviceable. On the other hand if your railroad dieselized in the early '50’s with Alco’s, they might have started to purge them sooner and bought GP38’s and GP40’s in the 1970’s. If you bought really unique stuff like Baldwins, you might have purged them even quicker and ended up with GP30’s which would be only 20 years old by the 1980’s.
A helper unit is only used to help a train and only operates on the grade territory. the rest of the time it sits and waits. It is about the lowest productivity unit out there. Very few miles. If your railroad can afford to spend mondo bucks on new shiny 6 axle, high horsepower engines so they can sit there 75% of the time and only be used for runs of less than 100 miles, more power to you. If I was going to have helpers, I would standardize on one unit and use it for everything. Personally I would use GP38’s. At 500 hp/axle they have the same hp/axle as an SD40, but are way more flexible. I wouldn’t use GP40’s because they aren’t as good for slow speed service. the suggestion of using the F units is also a good one. Old units in low mileage, low speed service.
Depending on what you mean by an “RS” unit. RS1, RS2, RS3, RS11? Anything other than an RS1 is the equivalent of a GP7 (maybe better on a grade) .
Well, if your modeling a bridge line connecting with the B&M, CP & the B&M ran freight trains together in the northeast.
It was common to see B&M & CPR locos working on the B&M. These two also shared power on passenger trains. This was the reason why CP bought E8’s. CP Alco’s were common in East Deerfield
CV in in the same vicinity. This also gives you CV, GTW & CN to play with.
As for actual power for your own fleet, let your imagination take flight.
You have the possibility of using anything you like up to say the mid 80’s
Alco’s (MLW), EMD, U-boats.
You can have a mishmash of loco’s all flying the same flag, your flag.
What ever you use for power is plausible.
If you can find copies of Trains magazine from Jan & Feb of 1982, there’s 2 articles just north of the area you are looking to model & about the same era with some great info & pictures of the locomotives used on the MEC, CP, B&M, CV as well as a couple of shortlines.
I would also consider this (it’s been discussed elsewhere on this forum somewhere). Given the same HP rating for similar locomotives, 6 axles can often outpull 4 axles. I read somewhere that the GP7’s and GP9’s were outpulled by their cousins the SD7’s and SD9’s, respectively. Same prime movers and generators, but had something to do with torque, physics, and some such. Logically, 2 extra motors, 4 extra wheels, yeah sure, extra power.
For the era, SD7’s and SD9’s would be nearing retirement even in helper duty. Are you thinking your RR bought them new, back in the early 50’s, or your RR was formed later and bought them used? For used power in the late 70’s, early 80’s, I’d think SD24’s would fit the ticket quite nicely. Still fairly young (only about 20 years or so). For a bit newer power, SD35’s could do the job. SD40’s were built up to 1972, and SD40-2’s were built up to the 80’s. SD45’s were built up to 1972, and some SD45-2’s were built after, but these were such fuel hogs most were retired or stored and didn’t see much service in the 80’s and beyond. These could (in theory) make for good helpers, if they spend their time idle a lot.
Another consideration, would your line (in you theory) be up to the task of having such heavy engines run on it? Or are there weight restrictions on your line?
Judging by your thoughts, if your line has the cash to spare, the line would be well maintained, bridges would be strong enough to hold the heaviest locomotives, and your line could afford new or nearly new locomotives. If your line was around in the 50’s, they most likely had some F units, or some early GP7/9’s or SD7/9’s, and they could still be in service in the early 80’s, though nearing retirement. If your line was formed later, chances are they didn’t have the cash to buy new locomotives, they likely would have bou
Agreed. If it were me, I’d theorize that although secure now, the road was financially troubled from the late ‘60s thru the ‘70s (as many eastern roads were.) and in fact barely escaped being gobbled up by the many mergers/takeovers that were common during that time. So the 1st generation power wasn’t replaced, as maybe it should’ve been. This way you can justify running a bunch of distinctive old Alco, F.M. and Baldwin’s, just to be different. [8D]
They’re just starting to buy new as of recent, and using EMD motive power for top priority trains. This approach would provide for some nice variety.
Always remember: Opinions are like… well you know… [;)]
I’ve chosen to model a freelanced bridge line railroad. Now, with the limits of what real railroads had off, my mind goes bonanza looking at different power the line could run. The railroad is supposed to serve as a connector for the Boston & Maine Railroad between the Hoosac Tunnel Route and Northampton on the southern part of the Conn Riv. As a result, the line requires helper operations. The line is meant to have a close, harmonious relationship with the B&M, so locomotive practices should follow B&M manners. The line is modeled in the early 1980’s before the advent of Guilfraud (kudos to bmtrains for that one). I’m placing the railroad’s hub at Northampton on the Conn Riv.
This leads me into the question. How should I develop a plausible locomotive fleet?
I guess the answer begins with: Well, how much power does the fictional railroad need? The Mainline runs are powered by B&M power, which will be GP38-2s and GP40-2’s on the fictional railroad’s Mountain Main and GP7s and GP9s on the Conn River Line. So the fictional line needs no power for mainline runs
However, for the fictional railroad’s mountain main, helper power is needed. So what kind of power should it be? Well, constraints include that the power should be EMD (B&M was almost completely EMD) and it must be from the early 1980’s or before. Let’s assume road finances aren’t a problem.
GP-38’s and GP40’s would make sense, since that was what the B&M used. But could I go with SD45s or other power? Would that make sense?
Another thought was, in that period the lovely B&M Minuteman scheme was long gone. The power that wore it was traded in for new power. Well, let’s say the fictional line had money and bought those old F Units in Maroon, providing B&M money for new power. How plausible is it to have F Units running as helpers?
What other power would be well suited that I shoul
Sorry, couldn’t resist. My son watched about 50 of those over the weekend and it was cold so we were all inside.
Where do you find out details like this? i’m trying to decide what I want to model. Looking at Santa Fe/ATSF in the 50s so that I can have steam + diesel. I already have my super chief, looking for a freight line that uses steam still.
Why not go with Alco? The D&H got rid of their C628s in the 70s, could have been snapped up at reasonable prices. 251-powered engines - RS11-36-32-27, and Century 4-axle (C420-424-425) power would be good for the locals and switching. Maybe a RS1 or RS3 in the yard, older than preferred for the mainline, but good to switch with. Good models of most Alcos are available, mostly from Atlas, some by P2K (RS27). Atlas S-series switchers pull very well.
Soo Line used to use F-units up into the 1980s, even as helpers on Byron Hill. They would also send out a U30C with an F-unit on either end, 6000 hp the hard way.[:D] The F-units could also be sent out on the local, as long as they are back-to-back. Mechanically the same as a GP7.
The NYS&W had used C-430’s and SD45’s both in use in the mid-nineties, so mixing diesels isn’t that odd. Since you’re modeling the northeast railroads, which all seem to have had financial problems, it would make sense to have your line frugal, and as bigger roads were getting new equipment, short lines grabbed up the used stuff. That’s what makes them unique. There’s a book by Jeff Hartley, I believe about alcos in twilight in New England, it shows six unit b-b alcos on CV trains.Nearby Vermont Railway used Alcos, even bought used rs-3 from L&HR, plus a used sw-1500 and gp-20 from TPW in the 70’s. Since Atlas has those new rs series and centurys , alcos would look good. Besides,alcos could be had cheaper than emd’s or ge’s. The choices are unlimited.
Well,… Where would the mechanical department get parts? I mean e-Bay is still almost 20 years away. Alco has been out of business since 1969 so the road would have to get a maintenance contract with Worthington or develop in-house expertise. Parts would have to be canibalized from whatever other 251 Alcos that could be found sitting around in the scrap yards. All highly undesireable situations.
This is the scenario of a flat broke railroad limping along on as tiny amount of capital investment as is possible (sort of what the like the Rock Island had just done {1975?}). Seems an unlikely scenario, especially since it was specified that finances weren’t an issue.
Well since finances aren’t a problem, diffenately go with EMD or GE. Depending on how much freight is moved, if you go with SD’s or C’s, you may not need pushers. SD-40’s with those long “porches”, that’s the ticket! Being a smaller bridge line I wouldn’t mix up too many different models though. Use all B-B or C-C trucked units, then have a few older geeps for locals. Just how many units you planning on having?
Thanks for your responses!
Based on your comments, I feel that I’ve come up with a workable fleet for the fictional line. This does not include any road power as all road trains are powered by foreign power from the B&M, P&LE (Conrail), or Conrail.
I’ve altered the railroad’s power requirements a bit.
The road’s basic history, in terms of finances. I’ll start around 1960.
With the railroad in a decline and traffic dwindling, the railroad bought old F units from the B&M (I haven’t decided what F#). The railroad would continue to limp along until in the '70s coal traffic to the Mt. Tom Generating Station brought a new reliable source of income. With this new income, the railroad was able to buy a SD40-2 to push the P&LE coal trains over the pass. This justifies using both the old and the new on the hill.
So, the roster:
1 SD40-2
2 F Units
2 RS1/2/3 Switchers for use on the mountain local
2 S1/2/3/4 switchers
1 SW8/900 switcher
1 GP9 as extra power
Perhaps a GP30 as extra helper power?
The Alco 251 is still in production, and has never been out of production since it inception - it is used in many many non railroad applications, and parts for the 251 engine are not, and never have been a problem.
And while I am on the subject, the same is true of the F-M OP engines. Many railroads scrapped the F-M locomotives because of the very high value of the OP engines. OP engines are also still in production.