Always trying to up date my passenger equipment I look for different detail parts that might work. First it was the Walther diaphragms that date back to the late 50’s when Walthers produced passenger cars then not like the ones today.
I also noticed that many of my brass cars came with a rubber diaphragm and a striker plate make of metal.
Recently I found some from Precision Scale that look good to me. Has anyone tried them and how do they work?
These are some examples, the one at the bottom is a working diaphragm with attachments.
I still like the old Walthers 933-429 folded-bellows diaphragms, modified as shown on page 24 of my book, The Model Railroader’s Guide to Passenger Equipment & Operation.
The modified Walthers diaphragms allow a scale coupling distance, about 18 scale inches between cars, which is generally not possible with other model diaphragms I’ve tried. I’m more concerned about how the cars look in a train, and the close coupling helps to make a train look more realistic. They do limit the cars minimum radius to about 30 inches, but that’s okay with me.
I trust what you say, in fact I have read what you describe in your book as well as Chuck Hitchcock’s advise on Allen Kellers video of his old Argentine Division.
He describes how you need to remove a portion of the bellows and demonstrates it in the video, (Volume Twenty-Nine); to obtain the 18 inches between cars. As you know his passenger fleet looks really good with the diaphragms placed the way they are.
Another option to explore is the diaphragms from Hi Tech Details. They offer several different styles of striker plates which is really nice (if you are looking to be prototype specific).
Robert, I don’t know if Andy has ever tried them, but the American Limited diaphragms can be installed on cars that close coupled at or near scale distances of 18 to 22 inches.
And, properly installed they touch and stay touching through vertually all operating conditions. If the cars are close coupled radius will be limited like Andy says, but I found that using Kadee long shank couplers, set further back on the car provides both close coupling and good diaphragm operation down to 30" or sligtly below.
On cars like those made by ConCor or Athearn, I remove the molded on "diaphragm/door frame for proper diaphragm position, and then position the long shank couplers for scale car spacing. I have also used this method on Bachmann heavyweights and Branchline cars.
The extremely light springing of the American Limited design results in troble free, derailment free operation. My diaphragm equiped cars will easily go through a crossover of Atlas #4 Custom Line turnouts.
Many years ago, before American Limited, I did just as Andy, modified the Walthers product, even adding torsion bars and springs. The American Limited product works well, is aforable, and simulates those additional details nicely.
IIRC the rubber diaphragms above were made by a company named MHP or MH Products or something, it was years ago. I photocopied the striker plates and fold the bellows from paper.
Oh man, I hate reviving old threads, but this one interests me, and I hope to spark some renewed discussion.
I mention in a thread that I just started today that the Walthers plastic diaphragms result in derailments on 30" radius curves. If you replace the medium centerset shank couplers with long centerset shank couplers, the separation between cars is too much, ruining the prototypical look.
I think that there is a small business opportunity here. Someone ought to produce a fabric type diaphragm.
Anyhow, I know that you really like the American Limited diaphragms. Tell me more.
Respectfully, why will they work if the Walthers diaphragms won’t?
I am sure that they will work or you wouldn’t be putting them on all of your passenger cars, but what is it about them that makes them that good and that reliable.
Rich, I have not looked at a recent Walthers car to know exactly what they are doing lately, but the ones I saw in the past have the diaphragm as one piece that slides in and out of a slot in the car end.
The problem I see with that is not enough travel, not the right kind of travel and springing that is too stiff. They primarily move in/out, they need to flex side to side as well. The Amercian Limited design allows both compression and swivel - each action independent of the other.
The Amercian Limited system exists completely independent of the car end/design. Once assembled, it is still two pieces, one half floats over top of the other. The spring force is increadably light, so as long as they are properly installed, the forces needed to compress them around curves and such will not derail cars that other wise will track fine.
As cars go around curves, the outer side actually “extends” while the inside “compresses” - they stay touching, do not bind, and do not put any real pressure on the cars.
Sheldon, thanks for that additional information and explanation of how the AL diaphragm works.
The current Walthers diaphragm is as you describe it. It is one piece, and it slides in and out of a slot on the end of the car. It does not flex from side to side and that is the problem in my opinion.
I am going to have to try some of the American Limited diaphragms. I know that you have been singing their praises for some time now.
I recently got a pack of the ALs. They’re detailed, but slippery little devils. Look nice, flex well. Just getting ready to put on a couple of more pair, so may have pics in the next day or so.
Because the fit of the Waltehrs diaphragm being somewhat sloppy, there is side to side flex, just not as much as desireable in all cases. The AL diaphragms are certainly superior in this regard, as you point out, but after some tuning my Walthers cars run well. I’ve found they can bind, either brand, when coupled to the fixed diaphragms supplied on Rivarossi and some other older cars. Fortunately, the ones that caused me problems are easy to pop out and replace with AL.
No, haven’t replaced any Walthers diaphragms. Mine do OK except when coupled top a few old Rivarossi stand-ins I’m putting in service. Their fixed diaphragms are coming off or will be trimmed off in the case of the baggage cars. The Walthers mix with my BLI CZ equipment, although I do have some cars that need closer coupling to fully test that.
I’ve only got a few of the ALs in service, but will be doing 3 more cars. I originally bought these to try on my narrowgauge San Juan, but they’re too big for that. I’ll have to do some custom ones for NG. So I’ve been applying the AL diaphragms to some standard gauge cars with good results.
richhotrain wrote the following post 5 minutes ago:
Look forward to the pix, Mike.
So, you remove the Walthers diaphragms, and put on the AL diaphragms, I assume.
Do the AL diaphragms get glued on?
Rich
As mentioned above, the AL diaphrams are 2 parts. The ‘fixed’ part gets glued to the passenger car door frame, and the ‘floating’ part sits in the fixed frame. They are a bit finckey to assemble until you get how they go together, but work well. The key to this is 4 plastic leaf springs that are glued to the fixed part. They hold the floating part in place and allow it to move in and out. There is a small lip on the floating part that latches into the fixed part - it is small and can be mistaken for a bit of flash DO NOT cut this off, if you do the floating part will fall out.
There used to be fabric diaphrams, like 40 or 50 years ago. They are not made any more because the plastic ones are better
Yes, they get glued on, They are designed assuming you have a scale model car end with a door opening and nothing else - just like a real passenger car.
I have never installed them on a Walthers car, because I don’t have any Walthers cars - but I have installed them on Branchline, Bachmann and a bunch of others.
Example - on my Athearn heavy weight cars I shave off that small “door frame” looking thing - which Athearn actually intended to look like a diaphragm - and glue the AL diaphragm to the car end - I body mount the couplers and adjust their position fo much closer coupling.
Same with ConCor and Athearn streamliners - I have jig I use to hold the car still while I shave off the molded on “diaphragm”
Every brand/type of car is different, but I do have some standard demensions I use so thay are all compatable.
Again respectfully, this idea often floated/used of putting a long coupler on one end of a car, and a short coupler on the other end drives me nuts - I actually expect to run my passenger cars in any order, any direction, and any mix of cars - and it does work - and the diaphragms touch and stay touching and run fine.
BUT it requires that every car have the diaphragms installed to the same standards - kinda like real life - again respectfully.
First off, I have been accused more than few times of being arrogant, elitest, or whatever about this hobby - you know, I have a layout with 36" MINIMUM radius, etc - so we surely don’t want to offend anyone any more than I already have - respectfully.
The Athearn and ConCor cars that make up most of my fleet come with truck mounted couplers - there are no holes in the floor. I mostly use coupler mounting pads from JayBee or make my own - either way I can put the coupler any where I want. Actually, I slide them way bck, because in addition to making the cars closer, I use long shank Kadee’s for the extra swing.
On other brand I simply redrill, relocat as needed - remember, except for Branchline, most of the cars I’m working with do not have those fancy compound swing coupler boxes like all this new high end RTR stuff does - but I have relocated a few ofthem as well.
I would post some pictures, but I honestly have not learned how to take good photos of all this little stuff - they just never turn out.
