in another thread :
I am no fan of MTH, However, it does not help the hobby at all when a toy or model manufacturer is impacted. MTH did negatively impact DCC “with its litigation threat letters” for a while. However, MTH being impacted now, believe it or not, is not helping anyone. A number of our brethren over on the CTT forum run MTH locomotives because of their overall quality and appearance as well as sound system.
Victor (ICMR)
OK, what letter is being discussed here? It has always been my understanding that DCC was an open source creation of the NMRA, not a propratary system of one mfg.
NMRA did not create DCC, what NMRA did is setup a compilation of standards for manufacturers to follow. This way any decoder will work with any DCC system. Its up to the manufacturers to invent systems and features that people want, as long as they comply with NMRA standards. What MTH did is patent technology that other companies had invented. The big one I belive is Back EMF. So, legally, MTH owns the rights to BEMF and they are suing the other DCC manufacturers for using it. Even though they didnt invent it. A big reason people are so upset over this is because the inventors of BEMF are being sued for using thier own technology. At least thats how I understand it.
The new Soundtraxx Tsunami has the Back EMF feature, but I am not sure if MTH and Soundtraxx worked out the deal, or Soundtraxx just went ahead with their own idea. I have used it on two of my units I recently installed and it does make a difference.
I don’t think MTH actually invented this feature, but was able to make a claim first on it.
I think the inventors should sue MTH’s pants off.
Its totally unfair to nab the inventors work and patent iot.
MTH is using the legal system to their advantage and its wrong.
In my BLI Hudson’s manual, in the first couple of pages, they added a legal warning that they were (at the time) unable to activate the RTC (Regulated Throttle Control) due to ongoing litigation between MTH and the rest of the civilized world (okay, I exaggerate…I think they were okay with India). I believe that RTC needs BEMF to work. MTH claimed the rights to BEMF.
RTC basically IS BEMF in QSI-speak. The lack thereof is why my father in law’s M1 won’t start rolling til about speed step 9, but once rolling keeps going back down to speed step 4 or 5. Wheras the BEMF in the Loksound allows our T-1s to negotiate the entire layout on speed step 1. Takes like a half hour or so to circle the 8x12 at that speed.
–Randy
Not only is the DCC issiue inflaming the Scale two rail people, we have also been hearing horror stories about serious quality control issiues concerning their two rail G-scale line. I know a guy who bought the Rail King Challenger and NYC Hudson. After sending both back to MTH for warrentee work about 10 times, the NYC Hudson ended up with USA Trains mechinsim and electronics, and the Challenger got a new scratcbuilt drive train, with a home made electonics board. (The guy is an electronics genious) and their new HO K-4 4-6-2. We have heard that it has some serious issiues as well.
Just my [2c] worth
James
I agree with you, but the problem is that MTH DID nab the patent. So there isnt a whole lot the other mfgs can do besides continuing the suit with MTH and hope they get some sympathy.
Joe,
Remember that most of this BEMF stuff is being invented and then repeated here on the forums. The MTH letter has nothing at all to do with BEMF. The patent MTH received is for “control of a model train in 1 smph increments”, which has nothing to do with BEMF. Apparently MTH used BEMF as an example of speed control in their patent application, and people are twisting this up into all sorts of crazy stuff. In fact, I’ve even heard mention that the MTH letter stalled the release of the Tsunami? This couldn’t be farther from the truth. The Tsunami’s problems were all relative to the analog control system and had nothing to do with MTH.
The funny thing is, I am a diehard 3-rail modeler and have many MTH PS2 locomotives, and I can tell you for a fact MTH doesn’t use BEMF as a means of speed control in their products. They use an IR sensor and a piece of tach tape mounted on one of the motors flywheels for this purpose. Honestly, this method is very good and I would love to see it adopted in the smaller scales. The only DCC product with BEMF speed control that’s even close is the method employeed by ESU in the Loksound and Lokpilot decoders. Even Lionels O scale stuff uses BEMF, and wouldn’t you think they would stop after the last go aroun
I have also heard a bunch of horror stories concerning the MTH large scale stuff, which is interesting because my 3-rail MTH stuff has been virtually bullet proof. I hope they clean up the remaining issues before shipping the K4. If they don’t, I don’t they will last long in the HO scale marketplace.
Jeff
You can speed step the locomotive to start and stop on step 1, I’ve done it with my 2 QSI GP9’s.
While you may be able to fake speed control by exagerating the lower voltage settings on a QSI decoder, Randy is correct in assuming they don’t have any sort of speed control. Your method will not compensate for load or track grade either up or downhill.
Apparently QSI will be offering a replacement chip through their Sounds Like Trains company for those who want to upgrade to speed control. It’s funny people aren’t more pissed off at QSI for this tactic to raid more cash from the model railroaders. In my opinion, that’s all this is, a tactic. The original QSI systems could have and should have had speed control from the factory… [;)]
Jeff
Is BEMF the one that MTH took from a sub-contractor that was manufacturing it for them, called it theirs and is being sued by that sub?
Either way I hope MTH, M in particlular, ends up on the bread line.
Nice trains or not, someone will buy out the manufacturing rights of MTH and M can pound sand.