When Diesel locomotives were put into service on passenger trains, what was the source and type of power used to run the built in boilers? Did it take away some of the power to the traction motors?
Northtowne
IIRC the internal steam boilers in early passenger locomotive operated very much like the steam heat boilers in residential home applications…i.e. diesel fuel was burned to hear water into steam which was piped throughout the train lines to the cars to heat through radiators. This system had no impact on available horsepower or tractive effort of the locomotive whatsoever.
I think the last domestic passenger loco that had steam were Amtrak’s SDP40Fs in the mid-70s, which had the misfortune of several derailments that got bad press. The F40PH and later have HEP. According to the diesel reference book, a handful of GP38-2s and GP40-2s built in the 70s and early 80s for Mexico had boilers in high short hoods.
Right, not like HEP locomotives that subtract traction horsepower from a gearbox or the main alternator. However, the steam generator-equipped F7s and FP7s I grew to hate had poor weight distribution and did not pull as much tonnage as the plain F7s. This included the F7Bs that had a water tank in one end – pulled good when full, slippery when empty.
RWM
I have seen the term “steam generator” used instead of boiler. Was this just a matter of nomenclature or was this a different device than a regular boiler? If so, different in what way?
Same boiler, different word. Possibly to avoid confusion with the boiler of a steam locomotve.
Actually the difference between boiler (pressure vessel) and Steam Generator (steam coils, no tank), one gets up to pressure slow, other provides steam almost instantly.
Hence another commonly used term - “Flash Boiler”.
How many gallons an hour to heat 10 cars on a train traveling 80+ miles an hour across North Dakota on a -25 night with a 30 MPH cross wind?
A heck of a lot of gallons under those conditions, if such a train under those conditions could actually be kept acceptably warm at all.
When I worked for thwe CB&Q in the late 60’s, we would get those ‘frozen’ trains in St Paul after they strugged across North Dakota. On a run in -20 below weather, we used 3-4 E’s, each with twin S/G’s & 1950 gallons of boiler water. 130 miles later in North La Crosse, we would have to refill the boiler water tanks and refuel. The S/G’s could use a lot of fuel oil and boiler water in those brutal conditions. I remember passenger car depatment folks under those cars in St Paul with sledge hammers and fusee’s trying to thaw out the cars if they froze up.
Gallons per hour of boiler water can vary - you just made sure all of the S/G’s were running and were serviced at each division point. The NP & GN would put ‘heater’ cars in the train to keep the heat flowing. On the ‘Q’, we would add and extra unit to the Zephyr just for train heat capacity in the winter.
Jim
Was scale a problem? If so, was there any treatment of water used for steam generators?
Omaha, Nebr. - Tuesday, 7 April 2009
Santa Fe/Amtrak train no. 18, the combined Super Chief / El Capitan out of Los Angeles on December 22, 1971, had maybe 5 F-units on the point with a swollen revenue consist of 17-cars. Due to snowy and cold winter weather conditions across northern New Mexico, southern Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa and Illinois, the railroad tacked an 18th car onto the rear of this train, specifically a steam generator car. Actually, it was a smooth sided, “lightweight” baggage car that had a couple of boilers inside - Vapor brand units like those used in the diesels. With the addition of that 18th car, the train could now be supplied with heat from both ends, not just the traditional head end only. Of course the view out of back door of the trailing 10-6 sleeper was lost, but the train surely did remain comfortable inside.
During the fall of 1971 while living in Barstow, California, I’d occaisonally see the Super C rolling through town with a caboose, a steam generator car, and the general manager’s business car bringing up the markers. That little bit-o’-“varnish” tacked on the rear of what was then the world’s fastest, regularly scheduled freight train really made it look even more impressive!
The last steam-heated passenger trains in the United States were on the North Jersey Coast Line of New Jersey Transit (ex-NY&LB) into around 1984. The E8A’s and GG1’s assigned to this service all had steam generators.
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LOTS !! Northern Pacific baggage cars on the North Coast Limited that had big water tanks in the front of the cars, one on each side of the center walkway. These cars were always to go behind the diesels with the front going forward, so they could hook up the engines to draw water for the steam generators.
The Minnesota Transportation Museum has one that they use on their tourist trains along the St.Croix river.
Thanks to all for the detail answers. Was surprised to find that the SG/Boilers were similar in operation to a nat gas hot water heater. I had thoughts that the source for heat would be in some way electrical. Was way off base.
Northtowne
Today it is. In earlier times (but after electricity had been “invented”), electricity (as a power source) wasn’t robust enough to do the job. It had it’s first applications as a lighting source (via batteries and axle generators), but that really wouldn’t have been suitable to generate heat as such.
At least that’s my take.
Well, Well, Well.