How many trains have there been during the great era which were operating with more than just one type of dome car?
The only train I know of is the Empire Builder, which had both the short domes and the full dome operating in one consist. Are there any others?
Depends on what you mean by different types of domes. The GN Empire Builder was the only train to operate with short coach domes and and a full length dome Lounge in the same consist.
The California Zephyr although they were all short domes had three different types in each consist three were dome coaches there was a dome Buffet lounge Dorrmitory car and a 3 DBL Bedroom 1 Drawing room Lounge Observation dome. The dome level of the latter two cars were for sleeping car passengers only.
The North Coast Limited operated with two different type domes in each consist dome coaches and dome sleeping cars later one of the latter in each cosnsits was converted to dome sleeper lounge car for sleeping car passengers with the dome level being the lounge area with tables installed and half the seats reversed.
The Capitol Limited operated with two domes when it was combined with the Columbian one a dome coach the other a dome sleeper.
The 1956 Denver Zephyr operated each consist with one dome coach a dome buffet lounge and a dome parlor lounge observation. Actually the CB&Q had quite a variety of Budd domes all short except for the one Great Dome Lounge thwy owned in GN Empire Builder service.
Santa Fe was the only railroad besides GN and CB&Q that owned short domes and full length domes. The Santa Fe short domes were operated in the Super Chief their Pleasure Domes and the full domes were operated initially in the EL Capitans, San Francisco Chiefs Kansas Cityan and Chicagoan. Later when the El Capitan went Hi-Level those full length domes were assigned to the Chief until it wa sdiscontinued then they saw service in the Texas Chiefs.
The UP owned four types of domes all short and only one train operated with four types and that was 457-458 between Portland and Seattle and those were the original
Train of Tomorrow Domes, Dome Coach. Dome Diner, Dome Sleeper (operated as a parlor car) and Dome Lounge Observation. The City of Portland operated with a Dome Coach, Dome Diner and Dom
Regards the short domes, from all 3 manufacturers, nearly all were of the 24 seat, all facing foreward variety. There were a few exceptions; the Santa Fe Pleasure domes had couches at both ends, with parlor seats in between, the UP dome-diners had table seating, and the NP dome-in-the-sky conversions, when the obs cars were pulled, also had table seating. Can’t think of any other pre-AMTRAK short dome exceptions. The long domes were a different story, and had greater variety, considering they were all dome-lounges. I think upstairs they all had in common a combination of booth and lounge chairs alonng with a section of traditional four across seating. Hope that offers some clarification.
In which years exactly did the Super Continental operate with those B&O dome sleepers? Where was the position of the ex-MILW Super Dome and the B&O dome sleeper in the consist of the Super Continental?
The three leased B&O sleeper domes operated on the CN between May 1966 and April 1968. While in CN service they were renumbered 647 MOONLIGHT DOME, 648 STARLIGHT DOME and 649 SUNLIGHT DOME. During the period of time they were leased to the CN they operated toward the rear of the long SUPER CONTINENTAL consists amongst the sleepers and were open to the Sleeping car passengers only. between Edmonton & Vancouver.
The ex Milwaukee full domes operated just aft of the Dining cars in the winter months and during the same period during the summers the SUPER CONTINENTAL operated with twin unit dining cars and these also operated just ahead of the Sceneramic domes.
TTFN Al
PF, I’m wondering what is your source for this information? I rode the SUPER maybe a half dozen times during that period and, while the ex-Milwaukee dome lounge was present, NEVER was there a dome sleeper. My 1966 Official Guide lists the Panoramic dome lounge but not the sleeper dome. I’ve seen forum discussion of such an assignment, but never have I witnessed or seen any kind of proof of this. Can you help me on this?
Canada’s Bytown Railway Society . The Dome Sleepers were leased for the period of Expo 67 but it was actually a two year lease. The dome sleepers were operated daily during the dummer months between Edmonton and Vancouver and during the winter months they appear to have been stored in Vancouver.
TTFN Al
Do you have photos of those ex-B&O dome sleepers of the Super? Or do you know a webiste where I can find such photos? And still another question:
CN also took over ex-MILW Olympian Hiawatha Skytop observations and named them Skyview observations. When did those cars enter service on the Super Contiental and when did they quit service on the Super?
And is it true that CN enlarged the lounge area in the Skyview cars, so that the passengers had a bar in the last car and didn´t need to walk to other cars to get the drink?
First off the CN did not assign the ex Milwaukee Skytops to the Super Continental they were instead assigned oriiginally to the Ocean and Chaleur and sometimes assigned to the Scotian. I have seen pictures of the B&O domes in CN service I’m just trying to remember where I saw the pix. After assignment to the eastern trains ended three were assigned to the Skeena between Edmonton and Prince Rupert. Winters they could be found stored in Vancouver and when Transport Canada ruled they could not be safely operated due to lack of emergency doors there RR operating days were over several were placed on a rail barge in Windsor for use as a floating Restaurant.
Mr Fan, I travelled on the Super, Vancouver-Montreal to the Montreal Expo, again with NO short dome, the ex-Milwaukee dome did operate west of Edmonton. I, too, would find this more believable with photographic evidence of the Pullman domes in the consist.
Try Web Lurkers Dome Main they might have the photos you are looking for.
Thannks for the info.
But I read several times that the Skyview cars were also assigned to the Super Continental, but only for a very short time. But at least, they did.
Thannks for the info.
But I read several times that the Skyview cars were also assigned to the Super Continental, but only for a very short time. But at least, they did.
The Super required seven sets of equipment the reason the former Skytops were not assigned was their was only six of these cars purchased from the Milwaukee Road all that were built.
The CN treated the Ocean just like the Super Continental. They Ocean required two sets of equipment as did the Scotian and the Chaleur. I lived in Toronto at the time and rode the Super on many occasions as I did many other CN trains. Remember the CN operated a second transcontinental train at the time the Panorama and it to operated the Sceneramic Domes between Edmonton and Vancouver as well… The Ocean was a truly first class train and never operated any domes until the Via Rail Canada era when they received former CP Skyline domes and Park sleeper Lounge Observations. Trains magazine also featrured a picture of the leased B&O domes in Super Continental service in one of the 1867 or 1968 issues.
TTFN Al
Did the Super Continental keep it´s Sceneramic-domes till the very end under VIA in 1993? Or have the Sceneramics been retired from Super Continetal service in the beginning of the VIA era in 1978?
Via continued to operate the domes until the Canadian was discontinued over its original route and only one transcontinental route was operated. Most of the former CN Sceneramic domes operate today in private service. Only one 2402 YELLOWHEAD was retired and scrapped by Via Rail in 1983. They were still operational until 1981-82 in Super Continental service.
TTFN Al
I don’t know if this qualifies as “different types of domes”, but the CB&Q 1947 Twin Zephyrs , in addition to the 4 Budd domes built for each of the two 7 car train sets, had one dome coach in each train set that the Q had converted from flat top coaches. They differed in having flat glass panels instead of the curved ones of the Budd-built cars.
I take issue with calling the UP dome diners short domes . I recall them as full-length or nearly-full-length, with all dining upstairs, like Superliner and SF HighLevel diners, and the lower level kitchen, storage, and transition-pasasge.
If my memory is mistaken, please correct me. Thank you.
daveklepper maybe this will answer your UP dome questions.
Union
Pacific
(UP)
Streamlined Dome Cars
by Al
The Union Pacific was the second largest purchaser of new dome cars next to the CB&Q and even today own domes for operation in their business fleet.
The first domes to be acquired by the UP were the four Astra-Domes built for the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW (See Pullman Standard chapter). These cars built by Pullman Standard were delivered to GM in May 1947. The four cars were named only STAR DUST (Dome Coach), SKY VIEW (Dome Diner), DREAM CLOUD (Dome Sleeper) and MOON GLOW (Dome Lounge Observation). In April 1950 all four cars plus the EMD E7A 765 that had comprised the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW were purchased by the Union Pacific and moved to Omaha, Nebraska. Here the cars and diesel were repainted from their stainless steel and royal blue scheme to the Armour yellow, harbor mist gray and red streamliner colors of their new owner Union Pacific. Since the Union Pacific operated only one train worthy of the four domes that required but a single set of equipment it was almost a foregone conclusion the UP would operate the cars in their pool train between Portland and Seattle.
For years the UP-GN-NP had operated four trains daily between these two major Northwest cities. Each railroad operated a daily train in each direction and every three months the operation of the overnight train was rotated between the three roads. The UP operated trains 457-458 as their regular schedule. These trains operated NB from Portland each morning bringing through sleeping cars from the connecting CITY OF PORTLAND and SP CASCADE to Seattle’s Union Station. The UP pool train returned to Portland each evening. During the long days of summer the round trip was entirely in daylight. During the spring and fall the train operated NB entirely in the daylight but southbound the train reached Portland after dark. In the winter months the southbound usually encountered dark
The pre-Amtrak Auto Train operated a variety of dome cars in a single train, in the early 1970s. What follows is Auto Trains terminology for the cars. Mini-domes. These were Budd built cars from the California Zypher.Seating in the dome was single row on either side of the car. Maxi-domes. These were ACF built cars purchased from the Union Pacific. Seating in the dome was double row on either side of the car. As I recall, at least one of these cars operated in the dome-diner configuration. The third type was Full-dome. These were, as I recall, Budd built and purchased from the Santa Fe, where they had operated in Super Chief-El Capitan service. All of the cars were refurbished at Hoover Industries in Miami Fla, and were painted in the Auto Train’s distinctive red-white-purple paint scheme, which included purple trucks. It was possible to see all three type of dome cars in one Auto Train consist.