Digitrax DB150 shut down issues

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

Ok folks, here’s the drill:

I have had a DB150 (empire builder) for years, it is accompanied by a PM42, a PR3, 2 SE8Cs and 2 BD4s, and AR1, I have both duplex and traditional throttles and recievers. I have a large layout. it has been running flawlessly for months now since getting everything up and running.

So to add to the scenario, I usually have about 34 engines sitting in various places through out the layout. If they have sound, yes the sound is on and you can hear them. Usually of that number I am running one consisted pair of geeps (no sound), and any loco with sound (sometimes the T1, sometimes a consisted pair of F7s)

So as stated earlier EVERYTHING has ran flawlessly until, Christmas. For Christmas, Santa brought me a BLI C&O T1 with sound and smoke, another Rivarossi H8 with sound. Since having these new additions to my layout strange thing have happened.

The biggest and most dumbfounded error that keep reoccuring is, the DB150 seems to over heat. It beeps like it is shorting out, yet there are no shorts (I have gone over my layout countless times to say this), because all I have to do is switch the DB150 to sleep mode for about 15 minutes, kick it back on and everything is back to normal for about 15-20 more minutes and then it does the same thing again.

The DB150 has clear ventatlation (it’s not incased in anything) it’s in my basement which on a good day in Ohio winters you can be down there with a long sleeve shirt and feel ok. It does not have a fan thou, but that is on the way.

Interestingly enough, if I shut off the sound on any loco I am running on the mainline AND the locos sitting idle. it does not shut down. Only when I have the sound on does this occur.

SO, ladies and gentleman, what do you think the problem is? I have a DCS200 on it’s way (because I think the DB150 overloaded) but really I’m open to suggestion because I am stumped.

HELP!

2

Sounds like you answered your own question. The booster is overloaded.

3

Yep, I will second that.

So you are going from 5 amps to 8 amps.

Any idea how many amps all those noisy locos are drawing?

Unless the DB150 is faulty, it should shut down at 5 amps, not overheat.

Adding those two locos at Christmas may have taken you over the brink.

With that size layout, and all those sound equipped locos, you ought to consider a RRampMeter which will show the number of amps being drawn to the nearest one hundreth. Meanwhile, why not turn them all off and then turn them back on one at a time to you create an overload. Even a 0.25 amps per loco, 20 locos ought to approach the limit of the DB150.

Rich

4

My club had the same problem you are having with our Super Empire Builder 5 amp system. Running too many things that draw current while other equipment sits with power on. The circuit breaker does not trip, but the DB150 shuts down temporarily until it cools down. The red track power light dims quite a bit and nothing will run until the unit cools down a little. The DB150 did get warmer than usual. Addition of an old computor fan blowing across the heatsink helped, until we bought the Super Chief 8 amp system and downgraded the Empire Builder to our N Gauge layout. Turn off the headlights, mute the sound then dispatch locos so they draw the minimum each. Put the ldleing locos on a track that you can shut off the track power with a toggle switch. You should get an ammeter in the line so you know what all the locos are drawing together.

A few weeks ago I put a RRamp meter on our N gauge layout for a test. I ran six locos (two with sound) pulling trains of different lengths and the total current draw was 0.81 amps.

5

My layout fills a 18’ x 28’ space, it’s a large dual main line dog bone with a peninsula that comes out in the middle. it has two classification yards. Not All of my locos have sound, 14 of them do. A majority are Proto 2000 geeps with no sound, spectrum steamers, rivarossi steamers, a BLI steamer. and one Genesis. But I can’t thank you guys enough because I have searched all over the web looking for answers thinking I’m going crazy so at the least this confirms I’m not going completely nuts.

So my plan to aliviate the probelm is to get the DCS200 in and use it for the mainline as I have two grades, (one 1.5% the other 2.25%) and since I model the C&O I have a lot of coal drags going on so the load probably ups going up those grades. Then use my DB150 as a booster for the yards, where a good majority of the idle locos sit.

Thoughts?

6

Yes, this is EXACTLY whats is going on! I do need a Ramp meter so that is on the “to buy” list this friday in addition to the fan. Actually I have a few old windows box laying around I might just gut them and use the fans for both the DB150 and the DCS200.

and I have considered what I call a “dead track” that is controlled by a DPDT switch to power it on when I need a loco off the “ready” track as I call it in the yards. makes perfect sense and would prolly avoid this ever happening again. I thought even about having each spur on the round house have its own DPDT switch to toggle power so I wouldn’t have to power up the whole dang thing. Lord knows I have plenty of DPDT switches from the non-DCC days.

Thanks again for your help and thoughts!

7

No, DO NOT get a DB200. Thge 8 amp boosters are a false economy. Sure,m the unit itself is only $20 or so more - but the POWER SUPPLY is going to cost you a lot more. Plus 8 amps to the rails WILL fry something, sooner if not later.

First, find out how much power you are actually drawing. If most of those locos are just sitting there, your issue is more likely the inrush current for the sound units rather than an absolute overload. Also, what are you using to power the Db150? The symptoms you are having are more like THAT power supply is overloaded rather than the DB150 itself.

–Randy

8

Why go with the DB200, why not seperate out more sections in the layout and use another DB150 as a booster. Since you say you have a large number of locos spread around the pike surely if you had more sections powered by two DB150’s this would take some pressure of the existing unit. Something else to consider is cost, even at MSRP the 150 is much less than the 200, for the difference in price you could even throw in another PM42 and come out ahead. Sure this means a little more work with the wiring, but then who ever wants to finnish a layout.

Kay.Div.

9

LOL

To augment that statement, who ever finishes a layout?

Rich

10

Randy, first thank you for your input, seriously I appreciate and am thankful for any and all feedback.

You will be glad to know I am NOT getting a DB200, I agree, it doesn’t sound like a good investment. I HAVE recieved a DCS200. It solves a few other problems/needs that I have not listed but I would assume based on my research that it should remidy the issue at hand in this post.

As far as frying something. While I have not witnessed such an event with any digitrax product, I’m sure anything is possible if you’re not paying attention to details and reading the instructions thoroughly before connecting things. The club I belong to has a DCS200 as the main and a DB150 for each yard, never once have we fried anything and they have less locomotives on the rails than I do and the layouts are near in size, mine is slightly smaller.

However the DB150 is using the stock digitrax power supply that they recommended for the DB150 back when I bought it initially (many years ago) Basically it is the equvialent to the PS514. So maxed out it may be, however having the DCS200 as the main base station and a DB150 handling separate power districts sounds like a wise choice for my set up.

As a power supply for both the DCS200 and the DB150 I have the PS2012, yes I swapped it with the power supply I have traditionally connected to the DB150, yet it produced the same results as stated above. I bought the PS2012 a while ago with the intention of upgrading the base station because I was rebuilding my layout (to make it much larger) and had the plan of eventually setting up power districts.

Thoughts?

11

LOL!!

VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! HAHAHA

12

Well part of the equation (outside of this issue) is transpoding, programming track and intigration with JMRI.

The one issue I have is the DB150 (and would be the DB200) is lack of transpoding something of which the DCS200 does. Secondly the DB150 (for whatever reason) does not send that info to JMRI either, which presents the same issue again. Having 34 locomotives and tracking all their CVs is a pain in my backside.

Because I have ops sessions at my house, a programming track that does not require shutting down the layout would be REAL nice. Inevitably, someone is either fixing their engine or wanting to do something that requires a programming track while we are running. Also thanks to one of my friends not paying attention and did not have the throttle set to “ops” mode programming reprogrammed all the locos on my layout once (he wasn’t allowed to have a throttle for a while).

If you’re not familiar with JMRI and macintosh computers, I use it for signaling and layout monitoring, and it turns my ipads and iphone (and anyone else’s iphone) into wireless throttles. Plus it enables me to automate my layout when having an open house. And for giggles I can turn on the web cam, go up stairs and watch and control my layout from my phone and desktop computer (comes in handy when you have to

13

Great point!

Rich

14

The problem is now with 8 amps - unless your wiring is absolutely solid, it’s VERY easy for a loco to dreail and not come hard against the rails. This means imperfect contact, so resistence, like through a bad rail joiner. That cuts the current drawn by the ‘short’ from the idealized infinite to something less. If this something less is less than 8 amps - the circuit breaker in the DCS200 will never trip. You can push over 7 amps through a ‘short’ and not trip the breaker. 7 amps at a nominal 15 volts is 105 watts. Think how hot a 100 watt light bulb gets. Yes, it can and will melt things.

You are PROBABLY safe IF you can pass the quarter test all around your layout. This involves setting (NOT pressing) a quarter on the rails and verifying that the breaker trips. Anywhere and everywhere you set that quarter on the track needs to trip the breaker. If it fails, you need to beef up the feeders and/or bus in that area.

It is better to not apply the full 8 amps to the rails, instead run it through additional circuit breakers and divide the layout up into even more districts, each set for some lower current. This doesn’t provide more power, it merely limits the power to each section, and also prevents a short in one section from stopping trains all over the layout.

What are you powering the DCS200 with? The only power supply Digitrax sells that works with it properly is the overkill PS2012, and even then you need to supply your own 8 amp fuse in line between it and the DCS200, the included cables are all 5 amp fuses. The only nice thing about it is that is has sufficient power to run both the DB150 and the DCS200. The PS514 doesn’t have the power, nor does the Magna-Force 615, despite what they may claim.

–Randy

15

When my club switched to the 8 Amp Super Chief I added a PM-42 and set it for 1-1/2 amps which was a little low for HO. I readjusted it up to three amps feeding each of the four power districts. The power supply is rated for 9 amps. So far the unit has not shut down and no meltdowns, but the only meltdowns I have ever had (3) were in N gauge with an Empire Builder.

16

Dano,

I don’t know how much of this you’re already aware of, so if I’m telling you things you already know, I apologise.

Since having access to a programming track for repairs and such during an OP session etc for your group, seems to be important, might I suggest a setup like I have.

I have a free standing programming setup, consisting of Digitrax’s PR-3, a Soundtraxx PTB-100, a wall wart power supply for each, which are 12V DC .5A. These are plugged into each component. You’ll also have to hook these up to your computer via JMRI, or as some have done, this is all hooked up to a used laptop, whose only purpose in life is to run DecoderPro exclusively. Lastly a piece of track to use for the programming track. For things like speed matching etc, all you then need to do is connect the PR-3 to the Loconet via a standard Loconet cable plugged into a UP-5 panel. Then in JMRI, via a drop down menu located in the Loconet tab, change the PR-3 mode from Programmer Mode to Interface Mode

17

To use Transponding, you have to use ONLY Digitrax decoders. There are no others which do Transponding.

And it is totally unecessary. It’s harder with JMRI, but RR&Co EASILY tracks trains WITHOUT Transponding so you cna tell what train is hwere for automation purposes. JMRI can do it but it is harder to set up. Free, but more work, or pricey but easy, that’s the tradeoff.

–Randy

18

Randy, good feedback. The DCS200 sits behind a PM42, I plan on adjusting the voltage from there. Both the DCS200 and the DB150 will be powered from the PS2012 I spoke of earlier. Yes it’s a pain you have to supply your own fuse but I’m not worried about that.

As for transponding, most of my locos are digitrax decoders, only the steam locos use Soundtraxx decoders

19

Cj,

You and I think alike :slight_smile:

The only difference with my set up is the DCS200s programming jumpers are con

20

Ahh great point of reference. I’ll follow your lead on this one, thanks for the post!