This question has been asked about ??? times but I’ll ask it again. Can anyone tell me about the digitrax empire builder set. I’m interested in this set for my layout. Any and all info will be appreciated. Thanks
…Mario
My opinion, it is not thie right set. If cost is the issue, get the Zepher. If you want the good stuff, get the Super Chief radio. That I what I now have and its the best toy in the train room.
The big problem with the empire builder is that it WILL NOT READ CV’s. Even for a computer chanlenged guy like me, that is an issue.
DITTO.
Dump the Empire Builder Set.
YOU. WILL. NOT. BE. HAPPY. WITH. IT.
Reading CV’s will be a very valuable asset. If you are already considering the EB, then might as well spend a few more dollars and get the Chief instead. That way you have everything except radio (That too if you choose to upgrade or get a radio unit)
I have an EB and I use a super chief at the club, really the biggest asset is the ability to read CV’s (transponding) on the chief, and run LOTS of trains, but the super chief is overkill if your doing this for a small to medium size layout at home. More over the radio feature just adds to the cost regardless of any of the three you buy.
My advice is to get the Zepher which it’s only draw back is limited number of trains you can run at once, I think it’s like 5 or 10 not sure. But you can buy booters to increace that number. But alas, then you have spent close too if not enough to buy the EB.
The EB advantage is the ability to run more trains at once (compared to the Zepher), it’s great for medium size layouts. I have no complaints about it, I got the radio transmitter and the radio throttles in addition to it and life is good. Me personally, I track all my CVs on all my engines using an excel spreadsheet, because I speed match all of them, it’s nesseccary to compare. That’s something none of these base stations do unless you have them connected directly to a computer.
Keep in mind though that any Digitrax unit is expandable and backward compatible. You can buy a DCS200 to read CVs at a later date once you get more afluent with DCC if your interested in the EB.
Hope this helps, happy modeling
(Cranes neck around the corner, looks left and right…coast is clear) Uhhh, I currently operate on the Clunk, as I like to call the SEB, and I am happy with the system. When you don’t know what you are missing, what’s to miss? So, having read many threads on this subject, I’d have to back up the other fellers; the SEB is the clunk, the Grand Uncle, an anachronism, a hold back to times long past. It has lots of poop, as Dano says, so you can run tons of DCC and sound equipped trains, but that’s about all that is in the plus side of the matrix right now. Okay, the “kit” also comes with the DT400 and the loconet interface, but I can’t say that CDN$350 justifies all the ancillaries…if you know what I mean.
Unfortunately, I can’t steer you towards a USD$200 bargain that will run all the locomotives and other stuff that the 5 amp SEB will run for you, but if you shop carefully, you might get into a system that comes close…for about $300. [8)]
I cannot recommend the SEB as your only DCC set. It is the oldest system in the Digitrax lineup and has limitations that neither the lower end Zephyr or the top of the line Super CHief have.
To better help you, how big it your layout, how many locos do you intend to operate at the same time, and how many people do you intend to have operating trains at the same time? Also, what scale do you model in?
–Randy
I was lucky and managed to pick up an SEB set from EBay on the cheap. I added it to my Zephyr. To that end, I use the DT400 throttle, which is well worth having, and the DB150 as a booster slave for the Zephyr. For kicks I ran my layout for a while with the Zephyr as a booster throttle and the DB150 as the command station. I quickly discovered that the lack of CV read back was more of a shortcoming for me than the 10 slot (loco) limit on the Zephyr. So if you do not plan to run more than 10 locos at once, I would go for a Zephyr and pick up a DT400 as a walk around throttle. If the 10 loco limit is an issue then go for the Chief.
Mario, first welcome to the sight if no eles has did it.
First I will tell you I have a sickness, I love POWER and and the Biggest and Badest of ever thing I get into. So I am drawen to the $$$$ DCC system out there.
Now, my poorly but well runing bech is pretty big. Not counting the new section it is U-shapped. 19’ x 13’ X 8’ and 4’ wide. I have two main lines, A is DC only and B is DCC. DCC is the longest at around 150 to 175 feet. 2 have way long drags make it seem pretty small! Right now my M1a is pulling a 29 car train and my Heavy Mike is pulling a 18 car train. When you get a little speed going my bench starts looking kind of small. I have ran 4 engines at the same time with say a 12 car train each. I will say it was not the fun I thought it would be. In fact it was a pain in the take it from there.
My DCC fleet is mainly BLI steamers with QSI Sound and need low amounts of power. My Proto 2000 with QSI (E-7) loves power my X Big Boy by Athearn was not just right ate power like power was free.
Reason I posted this? My DCC system is a mer Bachmann E-Z that I got used from Tom for $30.00. It has a whole 1 AMP of power!!!. Yet it would power 4 BLI QSI Steamers with a small drag do to room or 2 BLI Steamers and the Proto 2000 E-7 with 15 cars each or the power sucking POS Big Boy with 20 cars (all it could pull and reason it is the X Big Boy) and my class J BLI with 42 cars!
As soon as I get my PCM with Lok sound Big Boy paid for I will buy the Zepher! It will open up all the sound and control options I am missing. But I am sure it will power all the engines I care to run at the same time. Both the A and B line will be DCC then. Heck if 1 amp can get it done I am sure 2.5 will do it as well. Plus when I am ready, well I can add stuff. One of the few times I don’t feel like I need the biggest and most powerfull stuff around!
C
Hi Randy My layout is ho approx 11x12 ft. The most locos that I’ll run is 3 at one time and 2 operators at the same time. Thanks for all the info about seb. I didn’t realize the reading cv was all that important to an extent…Mario
For your layout, the Zephyr would be ideal. It’s 2.5 amps would be plenty for 3 locomotives, it has CV readback, and you could get the Zephyr, 2 or 3 UP5 throttle panels and a UT4 throttle - which would give you two throttles, one stationary and one walkaround - for less than the cost of the Super Empire Builder.
When I run my california zephyr with my Athearn PA’s (PCM are replacing them) I pulled upwards of 2 amps when going up the 2% grade on my friends layout. if you are running trains that are completely lit, (like the BLI CZ) and want to run multiple trains I would go with the Super chief. I have yet to try my CZ with the PCM PA’s but I think it will still easily be about 1 amp for that train alone.
I have the SEB.
I wish I could read back CVs.
In that respect, it’s not enough. But, getting the DT400 and the larger number of cabs you can run is a good thing.
When I build a larger layout I may relegate the SEB as a power district booser and get myself the command station for the Chief.
Reading back CV values is almost mandatory. Please don’t get any system that does not have this feature.
Modern loco’s don’t draw much current; mine average 0.15 amps for a small steam loco with sound. Your loco’s (type unknown to us) will determine how much amperage that you need. It is easy to add a power booster to a small system if you find that you need more amperage (and not very expensive either).
It is very important to get a system with throttles that meet your operational needs and desires. How does the throttle fit your hand and how does it feel during operations is more important that the system amperage. Can you use a tethered throttle and how long does the tether have to be for convenient operations?
I have a Zephyr on my work bench and run my layout with a Prodigy Advance. I find that the PA tethered throttles are great for my layout and operations. The non-handheld Zephyr throttle works great on my bench; along with the computer interface for reading and adjusting CV’s.
My suggestion is to get a system that fits your operational requirements and style; and then worry about the amperage available (boosters are readily available if needed). Spend $50 on a permanently installed Ramp Meter and you will have a constant monitor of your DCC voltage and current consumption (then add the booster if really needed {do not assume that you will need it}).
Use the forum search function and you will find several threads listing actual amperage used by different loco’s (you will be amazed at the low current actually required by modern lo
I have the SEB and the SC and I wish I only had the SC. I bought the SEB first when I did my room sized layout, all was great untill I started having some problems with one of my locomotives. I could not get it to run right all of a sudden and I didnt know why. After a trip to my club layout one of the guys there did a readback on my decoder using JMRI and found that my speed table had been all set to 0… no wonder I could not move. We reset the speed table and the loco worked perfectly after that and still does today. My point is if I could have read back the decoder I could have fixed my loco in just a few minutes and not had to wait a few weeks until we set up out layout again. I have since bought the SC W/radio on E-bay from a store for less than $500 and it was new in box. You can find the deals out there, I would look and see what you can find and try to get the better command station. If you cant seem to afford the SC then try for a Zypher, read back is key.
Massey
Thanks very much for all the valuable informatiom fellas. I don’t think the seb is in my sight anywhere in yhe near future. Checking other units…Mario