hello,
I have a digitrax super chief, did i read correctly, on another post that i can buy an empier builder starter set and use the DB 150 as a streight booster, and also have a 2nd dt400 Wont this put 2 dcc signals on the track at the same time. If not why did i not just buy the empire builder and add another empire to expand insted of sepnding the extra money on a my chief. [banghead]
Purchasing a Super Empire Builder starer set will get you a DB150, Dt400, and a UP5 for less money than buying them separately.
The DB150 can then be used a a booster only by installing a jumper wire between the ConfigA terminal and the ground terminal. You also need a loconet cable between the DB150 and the Command station. Doesn’t hurt to add a larger gauge ground wire connection between the two as well. 14awg would be fine.
There won’t be two command signals because installing the jumper wire disables the command station in the DB150. As a “booster only”, DB150 just boosts the signal sent by the one and only command station.
Why get a Chief to be the command station? You will gain all of the extra features that Chief has to offer:
120 slots vs 22
Separate current limited program output
CV readback
Routes
Martin Myers
martin,
thanks for clearing that up. I rember now the you dont have a program track with the DB150
You’ll continue to use the DCS100 for the programming track. To make sure we’re clear here, your DCS100 will power one part of your layout and the DB150 another. This means you’ll have gaps setup and the layout dvided into at least two blocks, each powered by a different booster.
.
and if you get a short running from one power district to the next, change the rail out leads on the DB150.
This is exactly what happened to me when I added an Empire Builder Set to my existing command station. Instant dead short as soon as a loco hit the gaps between the power districts. Turned out that the DB150 had its A and B rail outputs reversed with respect to the other command station.
I’m the one who usualy says “if you want to expand, buy a Super Empire Builder”. I also always qualify it with saying IF YOU NEED ANOTHER DT400. For exactly the reason mentioend above - the set combination is less than the individual prices of the DB150 and DT400. Plus you get a UP5 thrown in.
But if you do NOT need a second throttle, it’s cheaper to just get the DB150.
I also recommend no one get the Empire Builder as their only set. The lack of CV readback and program track are the two biggest issues. IMO, not having a dedicated program track makes it HARDER for a beginner, not easier. There is the potential to accidently program every loco, and there is no safe low-current location to test a decoder installation ebfore puttign it under full power. You can avoid the first problem and simulate the second with a toggle switch and the resistor that comes with the LT1 tester - but now we’re back to wiring up DPDT toggles and isolating track sections. Isn’t it easier to just hook two wires to a piece of track and a couple of terminals labeled “Program”? Then, always test a new installation on the program track first. If it won’t program or read back, something’s wired wrong, but since the current in the program track is very low, it won’t fry the decoder. Fix it and get it to work on the program track first and you’ll know that at least it won’t smoke when you put it on the main.
–Randy
Martin,
Curious, is the instructions for wiring the second control/booster included with the manual for the set/booster?
Thanks,
Mobilman44
Sure does.
Look at page 24 in the PDF link http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/superempire.pdf
There is a ton of good support info on the Digitrax Tech support depot pages.
I cannot answer your question but there is a very active Yahoo Digitrax DCC Group I belong to.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digitrax/
There is quite a lot of info in the Files and Photos section of the group.
Rich
Hi!
Thank you Simon for the reference - it sure does explain how to wire in the second booster.
Thanks,
Mobilman44
When I took my initial plunge in to DCC I bought a Digitrax Super Chief Radio (DCS100) with a DT-100R throttle and UR-91; and a regular Empire Builder (DB150) with a DT-100 throttle and UP-3 as it was the best way to go. I have since picked up another DB150 on ebay.
I use Decoder Pro with an MS-100 for programing through my DCS100 on the home layout.
I am currently using one of my DB150 as a command station and a new Digitrax PR3. (I am away from home and have some of my locomotives with me to add decoders). I am also going to try the PR3 alone as it is difficult to go back to programing through a DB150 when I have used the full features of the DCS100 all of these years.
My point is to go with a Chief (DCS100) if you can afford it as the additional features will pay off in the long run.
Yeah, just get a small power supply and a piece of track and use the PR3 as a standalone programmer - even that does more than using a DB150 to program through. And JMRI works with the PR3 in standalone mode too.
–Randy
Ditto on my DB150 but not the DB200+. Digitrax shipped a bunch of the DB150s with A/B backwards.
I think it may be a crap shoot on the orientation of the A and B outputs. It’s probably more to do with railsync orientation.
My club ordered two DCS200’s on the same day. Both came directly from Digitrax in the same order. To this day one unit’s outputs are reversed to the other. I’ve tried making one unit an auto reverser and shorting it one time to correct the outputs. That works but as soon as the unit is reset to defaults, it reverts to its original out of phase condition. I’ve installed a DPDT reversing switch on its outputs. We just flip the switch to correct phase problems now.
Martin Myers
It’s good practice to add a 14awg ground wire between boosters and the command station ground terminals. Depending on the 28ga wires in the loconet cable could bite you.
Especially important to run that heavy ground wire if oen of the downstream boosters is used as an auto-reverser. The ground is the reference and as a train crosses the gaps, full track current will flow through the ground wire briefly, until the booster reverses. Now, do you want that in 28ga phone cord or a piece of 14ga wire?
As for the ‘flipped’ rail connections - they did indeed make soem that way. I don’t knwo if enyone has opened them up to see if what got flipped was the two output wires from the power transistors or the railsync likes on the loconet connectors. Whichever it is - if it’s flipped and you aren’t doing auto reversing, it’s going to STAY flipped. If it goes back and forth as changes are made to your system, you have mixed in with the Loconet cables one or more wired as ‘phone’ cords instead of ‘data’ cords, which is another culprit for flipping the booster output as a crossover ‘phone’ cored will reverse the phase of the railsync lines. Even if you have exactly two boosters and one cable - check to make sure the cable is wired properly before assuming you got a flipped booster. This is one place where the properly wired cable DOES matter.
–Randy
I dug around on Digitrax’s site and found this. It explains things pretty well.
http://www.digitrax.com/kb/index.php?a=865
DCS100 and Boosters
I recently split my layout in half, with a DB150 acting as a booster powering one side and a DCS100 powering the other. I’m trying to reconnect the bus feeders to the rails, which all worked properly before the split. Now when I reconnect the feeders there is no short indication, BUT when a loco goes over the insulated gap between the two sections, a short occurs.
This is a known issue, a common occurrence when a modeler adds their first booster to a DCS100 command station. MOST DCS100 rail connections are the opposite phase from the DB100 and DB150 boosters, thus Rail A on a DCS is the same phase as Rail B on a DB. A short occurs when a locomotive passes from one phase to the other. The easiest solution is to simply reverse the Rail A and Rail B wires connected to the DB150; you can also set the Booster to auto-reverse to
Randy,
I am not buying this for many reasons. I’ll just point out two to start with and then I’ll need some pretty hard data to show why this is needed.
The DCC outputs are a differential balanced output and thus do not have a commonn ground reference. Their reference is each other (i.e. differential voltage between A and B). The “short” you describe should be between A of one booster and B of the other, with the return back through the other lead. Not through any common ground or Loconet. If so, there is a problem. In fact the new 8A boosters are optically isolated between Loconet and the outputs, making this impossible.
From a safety perspective the ground on the boosters is an AC protection ground back through the power supply to your AC outlet. Thus if you plug in all of your booster power supplies to a properly grounded 3 prong outlet and then wire them again together on the front of the booster with another piece of wire, you have setup a possible safety issue. If one of the three pronged AC outlets ever loses its ground lead you now have your AC safety ground running from one booster to another and then to the AC outlet ground that still exists. Not an ideal situation.
If you use the recommended power supplies, there is NO connection to the house ground. There is no ground connection in the PS515. This too has been discussed many times and the idea is to NOT connect your layout to the house wiring at any point for any reason. Not needed, and not safe if you have an outlet wired backwards. And for the very reason you listed - another good one why you should NOT connect that ground terminal to the AC house ground.
Want proof the ground teminal IS referenced by both sides of the output H bridge in the booster? Just look at the recommended way to check track voltage if you don’t have a fancy meter that can handle the variable frequency square wave: Test from Rail A to GROUND and test from Rail B to GROUND and add them up. If the ground terminal was only connected to the booster case and maybe the Loconet ground wires but not part of the power circuit you couldn’t do that. Digitrax even lists this procedure in an app note for measuring track voltage.
As for the opto-isolation, as far as I know it’s still an option from Digitrax. It’s not really needed if you don’t use common rail wiring, which you shouldn’t.
This link has a lot of interestign tidbits. http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000hqP
–Randy