Hi all, I just have to ask why the decoder manual for Digitrax mobile decoders is so hard to understand.
I have been using DCC for more than 10 years and have mostly used Lenz, ESU and other European decoders. The last few years I have used Soundtraxx and NCE as well. I do have a few Digitrax also that I have only made basic programming on because of the forementioned instructions.
I am used to program my decoders using decimal inputs and if necessary by using the Bit-system.
The bit-system is easy to use because I find it logical as Bit 0,1,2,4,5,6 and 7 corresponds to the values 1,2,4,16,32,64 and 128, and all CV´s can be described and programmed in an easy way.
So why do digitrax use Hexadecimal? I don´t think I am slow in the head but reading the Digitrax instructions makes me second-think myself…
So if anyone have some manuals for Digitrax using either decimals or Bits, please let me know.
Thanks for the link Selector, but as you say, it doesn´t really help. It´s not fun to program when you have to convert almost everything. I have a interface that I use to program most of my “difficult” locos but that is to no use here as it wants decimal or bit inputs…
Is the Hexadecimal system something that is linked to the non-metric units? [:-,]
Hexidecimal is what makes sense in the 8 bit computer world. 8 bits is 2 hex digits. This is why other (non Lenz) systems use up to 127 as a short address. CV1 has 7 usable bits for the address value, which translates into a maximum value of 127.
It has nothign to do with metric/non metric - it is simple straightforward math. You seem ok working in binary, hex is just the same.
Decimal numbers are base 10 - so we have a ones place, a tens place, a hundreds place, and so on.
Hexidecimal is base 16, so you have ones, 16’s, 256’s, etc. It just so happens that a two hex ‘digit’ corresponds to 8 bits, or a byte. Or a single hex digit corresponds 4 bits. So when it says to set bit 6 and bit 2 to turn on a feature, write it out: 0100 0010 You can add up the 0x128 + 1 c 64 + 0x 32 + 0x 16 + 0 x 4 + 1 x 2 + 0 x 1 if you want, or look at each half independently and see it as 42 hex.
Like I said int he other thread, most Digitrax decoders have far more lighting effect options than most of the European decoders - mainly to provide all the options for US prototype operation (see Southern Pacific, or remember a Mars light is NOT the same as a Gyralight - and the decoder effects TRULZY look different). As such, since there are way more than 99 possible options, you can’t just structure a table of values in decimal. If there WERE less than 99 options, you could list is as “set the first digit to 3, second digit to 7” but because there are more than that you need to split up up somehow - hex covers the maximum possible options for one CV (8 bits, 256 possible values) and allows you to break it up neatly liek Digitrax did - one digit is the effect, the other digit is the modifier (speed/direction dependence, dependent on another function, etc.). To list all that in a decimal ‘tab;e’ would be 256 lines - and then I KNOW someone complain they couldn’t find the value for “Mars light, on in forward only” becaus
Thanks for the reply. I still wonder why ordinary bit schemes are to be too long to read? My Lenz decoders have just as many different light configurations without using Hex.
I am not afraid of math, it is just so more complicated this hex things compared to the math I used to practice at work.
To see really good instructions, look at both ESU and Soundtraxx! I have NO problem there, and we are talking sound decoders here.
I have owned and operated a Digitrax system for over ten years. I gave up punching in numbers a long time ago I have both an MS100 and a PR3 and use Decoder Pro exclusively to program decoders. I use both Digitrax and NEC decoders and have no problems using Decoder Pro.
If you don’t have a Digitrax system, you can use the PR3 and Decoder Pro as a stand alone programer.
I just started doing the same. Decoder Pro also programs lenz decoders with no problem. I will be using the pr3 and decoder Pro for all future programing needs.
As has been stated in just about every thread on this topic, very early Digitrax throttles (the DT100, to be exact) required hex for programming. Since a lot of folks still use DT100’s with their current systems, Digitrax keeps the hex references, along with the decimal values, in their manuals for backwards compatibility.
None of their other throttles since the DT100 have required the use of hex, so unless you’re using a DT100 you can ignore the hex values and just use the also-provided decimal values.
It tells you this, in bold print, right on the top of page 27 of their Decoder Manual.
All the Digitrax manuals I’ve ever seen give the values in both hex and decimal, so again, you can ignore the hex and reference only the decimal values. And for those instances where only the hex is provided, if there even are any such instances, the table B2 in the back of the Decoder Manual shows the hex/decimal value conversions. Or, you can simply use the calculator that comes with your computer.
Honestly, I think people dig this up just to complain…
No I didn´t dig it up just to complain! I seriously think that the instructions in their manuals are inferior compared to others (Soundtraxx, ESU and others).
I have tried to program the FX3 functions but the instructions aren´t exactly “crystal” if you get it.
I can only speak for myself, but I have no background in the various base notations, at least not since Grade 9-11 many seasons ago. So, I understand a good chunk of Graffen’s frustration…except that between my DT400 manual and the DB150 manual, plus Randy’s forebearance five years ago when he patiently coached me through figuring out the bit computations for addresses, I have managed to muddle through just fine.
Thanks, again, Randy, for your patience with those of us who can’t seem to process this way of thinking.
What is dead? The issue of Digitrax being questioned, or the general helpfulness?
I have always regarded your inputs David, but if this is what you can tell me about Digitrax programming here, I put this discussion to rest.
Obviously if you don´t own some special hardware, you aren´t supposed to own these decoders. I have now decided to use all other makes, EXCEPT Digitrax.
Actually they are - the problem, if I have any complaint, is that the tables are backwards. They should list Table IVc BEFORE IVb.
The real plain English is this: Look in Table IVc and decide when you want the desired function to be on. Write down the digit corresponding to the choice. Then look in Table IVb and pick what function it is you want (strobe, mars, etc) and write that digit next to the first one. Go to the back of the manual and look up the decimal number equivalent. There is the value you program int he function CV to generate the desired effect.
Or just use DecoderPro and forget hex, decimal, tables, manual, etc. for ALL decoders. [:D]
Sort of - the DT100 ‘required’ hex because fromt he beginnign Digitrax chose to make full use of each CV. A CV is 8 bits - this allows values 0-255. However, the early DCC systems had only 2 digits int he display. This limited them to 0-99. So Digitrax came up witht he idea of using hex, since 2 HEX digits allows 0-255. See also why Lenz stops short addresses at 99 and the others go to 127. Why does the Digitrax manual still list hex? because in some cases it’s easier, and also for peopel with still perfectly usable DT100 throttles can program. Why does Lenz limit various CVs to 0-99, and also limit their function choices to the same? So people with old Lenz systems with the 2 digit displays can still access all the features of the decoder.
Functions are the big one, Digitrax offers 0-7, plus A, B, E, and F as valid hex digits for the function modifier - when it is on. That’s 11 options, 2 more than Lenz can do without either resorting to hex or a VERY awkward decimal table. Likewise, they have 0-B as valid hex digits for the actual function itself - 11 different functions. 121 total poccible functions, with the unused digits
i think digitrax had to use hex in the manuals because the DT100 only had 2 digits in the display assigned for displaying certain CV’s, even NOW, the digitrax units actually work in hex inside, it is just that the DT400’s and i think the 300’s too have/had a display that could show the hex number as a decimal which makes a bit more sense to a world where everything else in daily public use is in decimal. it is a bit like comparing DOS with windows, early windows i believe used the window display tabs to run a preset dos command, the computer was still using DOS, but displaying it in a visual form with plain english. and i suppose PC’s all run a binary system anyway??
Speaking of beating the deadhorse - Why is it that anytime someone has a question about programming a Digitrax decoder the response is always "go out and buy this additional piece of hardware (PR3) and power supply for it even though the person doesn’t own a Digitrax system. Why buy a Digitrax decoder if you need a
Installation Information
See the Digitrax Decoder Manual for complete decoder test procedures, installation instructions, programming and technical information. Digitrax manuals and instructions are updated periodically. Please visit www.digitrax.com for the latest versions, technical updates and additional locomotive-specific installation instructions.
I agree wholeheartedly. While Decoder pro certainly make programming simpler, “Just use DecoderPro” won’t get the problem solved until it’s downloaded and installed plus a computer interface is acquired ( from somewhere?) and connected between the DCC system and a computer that may or may not be located anywhere near the train room.
