digitrax ut4 can't run switches??????

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

hi everyone. new here.

we bought 5 of these “utility” throttles. my dealer told me that they do everything a regular throttle would do except program decoders. now, we get these home and i see that you can’t operate the switches with them!!! and my dealer is giving me a hassle to return them. he says it is electrical stuff. but he heard how mad i was and said he would.

i’m not stupid here am i? you can’t operatie a switch with these, right? are there any other manufactures out there where you don’t have to buy the big, expensive throttle to throw a lousy switch?? i’ll dump the digitrax if so.

thank you very much if you know. i’m new to this and i feel dumb. billy b.

2

Nope, the UT4 can’t throw switches.

The UT4 was Digitrax’s democratically-designed throttle. They asked the users on the Digitrax Yahoo!Group what they wanted in a throttle, and throwing switches wasn’t one of the things the members asked for. Part of the goal was to make as simple a throttle as possible- being able to throw switches would have required having it operate in two different modes, which was something the members decided was not a good idea in the name of simplicity.

The UT4 is a knob-and-reverse-switch infrared- and radio-capable throttle that can handle 12 functions, and that’s it. You can’t program with it or throw switches. It just runs trains.

The idea of a utility throttle is that it doesn’t support all of the features of a DT-series throttle. You have to look at the list of features for each utility throttle in order to know what it can and cannot do. Each of them has different capabilities. Your dealer either didn’t understand the feature set on this throttle, or didn’t understand that being able to throw switches was important to you.

The other throttles in the Digitrax line, the DT300, DT400 and the low-end UT1 and UT2 throttles can throw switches.

3

thank you, fritz. we really wanted a small throttle with a big knob, but also that control all the functions for the sound decoders, f1 - f12. i also hate that you have to use the shift key on the ut4 to operate the higher functions, and there is no “option” key to help with that.

oh, well. maybe i am just being too picky.

thanks again. billy b.

4

There are options available to you, Bill:

1). The aforementioned other throttles: UT1, UT2, DT100, DT200, DT300, & DT400 - All will operate switches.

2). Computer control - You can hook up your Loconet to your computer using the MS100 Interface, and then using a 3rd party program like Railroad & Co.'s Train Controller, you can have a dispatcher throw your switches with the click of a mouse. Or, if you get the manual interface boards, you can actually build your own realistic CTC board (with buttons, knobs, toggles, etc.) that will control the computer that will throw the switches.

3). Use the manual override buttons on the DS54 stationary decoder. This is a simple “momentary on” push button that will reverse the state of the switch. This button can be mounted on the side of the layout with (probable) ease.

4). Just use conventional switch machine controls. A simple toggle on the side of the layout, etc.

The UT4 is designed to be an “engineer’s throttle”, and most engineers don’t throw their own switches. Besides, considering what they came up with for the UT1, it’s probably for the best that these aren’t able to throw switches…

Paul A. Cutler III

Weather Or No Go New Haven

5

Hey Billy

I am only familiar with Digitrax and NCE, so if anyone else knows about Lenz, MRC, Atlas, etc …

I agree with everything Fritz and Paul told you. NCE does, however, have a utility throttle that would fit your demands, I think … CAB04

It is small with the big knob, and you have the choice of that knob being connected to a potentiometer (CAB04p) or connected to a encoder (like a push button throttle)(CAB04e)(it can run two trains, also).

It works all the functions up to 12, and there is no shift key to hit … direct operation of each function.

It operates turnouts (switches). But use the “macro” button to do so, not the “select assy” button. A macro is, of course, a switch list, or a list of turnouts (or any accessories) that you want to operate as a group. So, everytime you want to throw a turnout, you actually will be engaging a single throwout macro!

When an engineer approaches a turnout, he will see the number of the turnout (the macro number) on a trackside sign (or switch control box, etc). He hits the “macro” button, enters the turnout number (such as 14), and then presses whatever button you choose to throw a switch. You can label the throttle button (switch, instead of macro) if you want, so everything is self evident to new users, but it is simple anyway.

I see you are from Pennsylvania. The Lackawanna railroad used switch nomenclature that works perfectly with Macros. Each turnout had a unique number, plus a digit that represents open or closed, left or right, normal or open, or however else you think of your turnout position. Industries sometimes used it, such as Roebling Steel in Trenton NJ and the huge Singer Sewing Machine complex in Elizabethport NJ (both of these plants are, of course, long closed up[no more factories in NJ]).

Good luck with your railroad.

Jim

6

PanelPro, part of the JMRI suite, also has that ability. That’s what I use to dispatch my layout. Plus, JMRI has the advantage of being completely FREE!

Steve

7

The knobs on the DT300/400 are replaceable too. You can put bigger knobs on the throttles. I"ve got an extra DT100, which will throw turnouts. If you want, contact me off list. Maybe we can work out a swap.

8

Fritz got this one, the UT4 was designed by the members of the Digitrax Yahoo group based on what features people wanted in a utility throttle. And Digitrax went ahead and built what was asked for.

Personally, a UT4 is not for me, although not because it can’t operate accessory decoders. I just don’t like potentiometer throttles, I’ve been spoiled by my DT400. I never use the Zephyr console anymore. The big advantage of the encoder throttles is you can start one train, select another one, start that one, and go back to the first one without it changing speed. There is no ‘throttle position’ based on how far you turned the knob, so control always resumes at the exact same speed you left off at. The potentiometer throttles alter the train speed to match the knob - slowy, if you haven’t turned off that option (i turned off the momentum inmy Zephyr - so reselecting a running train with the trottle at a different posiiton results in a rapid speed change, controlled only by the acel and decel CV settings in the decoder). This is why I prefer encoder throttles like my DT400.

–Randy

9

I have to tilt my hat to digitrax for doing someting like this. What a great idea - ask users what they’d like to see. Hmmmmmmm. Could this be one reason why Digitrax seems to have such a loyal following?

10

They are also very good to the experimenters who want to homebrew Loconet accessories, and to those commercial licensees who want to produce products for sale - thus all the good things from Team Digital, CML, RR-CirKits, and others. Keith at CVP cites Digitrax’s licensing requirements as the reason wh won’t do a wireless base unit for Loconet, but after talking to a licensed Loconet accessory producer, he’s just blowing smoke and not giving his real reasons. Plus look on various part s of the Digitrax web page - they actually provide links to the web sites of companies producing products that directly compete with Digitrax’s own! How many other vendors in ANY field do that?

–Randy

11

The ones that get business in the information age.

12

Are we really talking about Digitrax here?

When I got back into MR after MANY years away. I decided I wasnted to learn all about DCC, so I bouight the books. Pretty useless. Got the NMRA documents, not bad. Decided to go ahead and build my own DCC, call DigiTrax about Loconet, got a face full of attitude. Called NCE, got more help than I could use at the time!

My equipment is all NCE compatible, I designed and built throttles, controller and booster. Used NCC decoders and bought a couple of Atlas locs which have Lenz decoders in them.

If that is the way the treat potential customers, sorry, I wont be doing business with them.

John

13

Sounds strange to me. Everything you need to build a system that works with Loconet (for perosnal use) is right there on their web site in a handy PDF document called “Loconet Personal Edition”. It covers what you need to build a throttle that talks to a Digitrax system, or accessories that connect to Loconet, or whatever,
I think the members of the Loconet Hackers group on Yahoo would tend to agree that Digitrax is more then helpful when it comes to the homebrew experimenter.

–Randy

14

Billy

I’m using nothing but UT4Rs now. My DT300 is for sale on the local version of eBay but since I’m in NZ that’s not much interest to most folks on this forum [:)]

Maybe I’m getting old, but I can’t figure out what number a switch is, flip to SWITCH mode, and poke at “t” and “c” buttons until I get the turnout right before I’ve got a loco on the dirt. I need point and click

And my 6-year-old son or a fair proportion of visitors all seem to be able to get fancy throttles into all sorts of strange states. One of these days one of them is going to get into OPS programming mode and all hell will break loose.

So here’s the new approach:

ALL loco programming is done on a programming track using a dedicated old PC and JMRI DecoderPro. Total cost: a hundred odd bucks for the LocoBuffer II

Switches are thrown by a local fascia button or by JMRI PanelPro on a dispatcher’s PC, depending on what operating mode we are in. (Switches that would be manual on the prototype are manual on the layout.) Total cost: four or five hundred bucks. DS54s and Tortoises and all the wiring and switches soon add up in cost but I think it is money well spent for the flexibility they give me. It is still a lot cheaper than a Bruce Chubb style system with complex control panels and relays: all that stuff is done free thanks to old PCs and JMRI again.

Throttles are for running trains, nothin’ else. What I save using UT4s just about pays for the other gear.

15

thank you for all the information. i read all the posts and thought about everything. the best thing for me was to switch systems, and the dealer took back the digitrax system and the utility throttles from me and gave me credit with him, less $20. i thought that was more than fair.

we have an around the walls layout, that keeps on growing. we don’t have any real nice scenery, just a bunch of yards and industries, and routes to each of them. we have like a shortline, with a lot of switching.

randy got us thinking about encoder throttles, so we are buying 4 of the cab04p nce utility throttles with pot’s and 1 of the cab04e nce utility thottles with an encoder. those, along with the big, main encoder throttle that came with the nce system, we should be good to go. we don’t use a pc or decoder pro, etc, just the DCC system.

robengland, you’re only as old as you want to be! i have a neighbor in his 90’s, and right now he is digging potatos out of his huge (1/4 acre ?) garden! he amazes me. i really need to start working out. lol. we really like to work the switches by remote control. starting tonight, we are installing ports around the layout so we can plug in throttles near each yard or industry. we have nce “switch it” decoders to run our tortoise machines. we will use the number system that conrailjim talked about, at least i think that was what he was saying. i’ve seen pennsylvania railroad switches like that, where there is a switch number on a sign next to the switch, or on the electrial box, and there are two single digits above that number, one to the upper left of the switch number, and one to the upper left of the switch number.

1______ _______ 2
86

or something like that, withou

16

Hi Billy

You got it. I’ve seen those signs also … in a triangle shape. I’m interested in the old anthracite hauling railroads (Erie, DL&W, Reading, LV, etc) and the PRR.

You, the engineer, would approach the turnout and (assuming you are using the NCE utility throttles with the macro command) would press the turnout/macro button, and then enter 861, and the turnout is aligned to the left side route. Pretty simple.

I also use Switch-it/Tortoise combinations. I wired dwarf signals, with LED’s, on each side of each turnout. So you, the engineer, can tell the position of the turnout from afar. Pretty cool, I think. But, then again, its my railroad.

Have fun.
Jim

17

Hi Billy

Your neighbour is twice my age but I bet I feel older [xx(] Something to do with working 60 hour weeks for 16 years, while living in three countries, raising a son and renovating three houses. Believe me, lifestyle changes are under way and model railroading fearures prominently in the plans [:D]

I’m not sure how you get JMRI talking to NCE but I’m sure you can. If you like remote control, set up a PanelPro control panel on an old PC and click the mouse to see a Tortoise respond. It’s the greatest thing: you’ll never look back.

Cheers
Rob