After reading a post yesterday about a 4’x8’ HO layout that gets stored in a box on the ceiling I was very intruiged & might be changing my layout plans.
I was originally going to build an n-scale layout in a coffee table. The problem with that would be #1 it needs to be complete before I bring it in the house & #2 it would be more of a display then an operating railroad.
After reading the post yesterday, I realized that I have all the room I need in my shop & I could still get it up & out of the way. The problem with this option is the fact that my shop is not heated all of the time. When I don’t go out there it gets quite cold in the winter as I live in Wisconsin. Would this be a problem with expansion/contraction on the rails? Condensation problems possibly? I would like to build a decent size layout but don’t want to run into alot of problems along the way that couldve been avoided.
IMHO, building a model railroad in an unheated (or only occasionally heated) shop building would not be a good idea. This would be especially true in Wisconsin, as I understand the winters there. Your modeling and enjoyment time would be reduced during poor weather (“well, do I want to pay to run that heater for an hour to make it tolerable for me to go out there and work on the layout for 45 minutes?”). There is also the added difficulty of severe cold having some negative effect on the equipment. The expansion/contraction of the rail can likely be accomodated by careful placement of the rail joiners to allow some movement, but many of the lubricants in our locomotives aren’t designed to be used or even subjected to severe cold.
It sounds like space is a serious issue, but there are some really interesting micro layout plans out there, or a shelf layout can sometimes be added in a room to be above the other functions of the room.
Michael, the problem is rarely the heat or cold. Nickel-silver rails a full 100’ long, no gaps, will increase in length only 1/4" over a 30 degree temperature change, up or down. Since one doesn’t normally build a rail system without a gap or ten, this should never present a problem.
Instead, it is the wood frame’s subjection to changes in ambient moisture that cause the problems. Wood swells across the grain as its internal moisture content increases, and this will cause joints across those members to separate even further. Not great. However, if the gaps are already very tight, and the wood shrinks when its moisture content drops, what space do the gaps have to continue to close to accommodate the movement under them? They don’t! So, when the rail ends abut and the wood continues to shrink, the only give left is deflection in one or more directions, and that is what more than one hapless modeler has found one Saturday morning…tracks bowed sideways or up in an arched bridge.
If you find the space so appealing that you want to go to considerable lengths to enjoy all the other advantages you can see in it, then consider construction methods and materials. Maybe steel framing studs is the way to go, although metals do shrink with temperature changes. They won’t be afflicted by humidity except in the case of improper metallurgy and high relative humidity where condensation causes rust or other oxidation.
Heat, cold, Insects, dust, and rodents, even pollen, could add a whole nuther list of items affecting your overall enjoyment, though. So be thorough in your appraisal of the utility of your space.
I had the shrinking expanding problem a numer of years ago. I elected to only miminaly nail curves to hold the radius in position on the affected track and in my five layer helix, and this gave the track the flexabily to move a side to side a bit. No more problems in several years.
If you build on a sheet of foam insulation, you eliminate the expansion problems with the base. However, all the other problems mentioned above are still there.
Personally, I wouldn’t recomend it. The dust and dampness would make it hard to keep a layout looking very good.
Thanks everyone for pretty much confirming what I suspected. I had a feeling that these types of things would be a problem, I guess I just had to hear it from someone else. I guess I go back to my original plan of the coffee table layout. I’ve already got the basic plan, just may need to “tweak” it a bit when I make it full size.
Go for it. A number of the members in the modular club that I belong to, myself included, store our modules outside in unheated box trailers with minimal problems. There is a certain amount of expansion due to humdity but it can be minimized by painting all of the benchwork and any wood surfaces before doing any scenery. Yes, you need to gap your track and use quality lumber. We have more problems with mice that we do the heat, cold and humidity.
I live in the South and have had to build a temporary layout which has turned out to be 8 years old in my oversized garage. It sees temp swings from about 30 to 100plus, probably not as bad as yours. But I have found that as John mentioned, to have some flexibility in the curves by not nailing it down completely around. I also let my turnouts float somewhat and solder the joints selectively. I use Shinohora, Atlas and Peco turnouts. Also how you assemble the layout will depend on current humidity and temp. For example if you assemble it in the winter (BTW, even down here the humidity can be down to 20% or less) sometimes you can get bowing or other issues in the summer if things are very tightly assembled .
But my layout is about 10 x 20 vs a 4x8 you mentioned. What is important in my estimation is that a single sheet of plywood with cross directional grain will not expand/shrink a lot. As I recall there are other types of 4 x8 sheets which will move even less. Given that you plan on raising it, an lightweight steel or aluminum frame when firmly attached all the way around will also help. Closed cell foam is also a good option and has worked well in certain areas.
As far as lubricants, I use full a full synthetic which is plastic compatible and has a wide temp range. Some petro based lubricants don’t like wide temp ranges.
As I’ve aged my eyes aren’t nearly as good and so N Scale has become difficult for me.