I have a problem and I am at my whits end as to what to do. But I have developed a problem with extreamly rapid buildup of dirt at my turnouts. I havn’t been able to figure out of its at the frog, closure rails, or the points. But the problem is that unless I constantly run a track cleaning car. I am having to stop about every 10 minuts and run track cleaner through my turnouts. I use Life-Like blue colored track cleaner,and I run the cleaner until my Q-tip doesn’t turn black any more and I am using Atlas Nickle Silver Track. But still 10 minuts later My switches need cleaned again.
I am stumped because my layout was formerly in a dirty dusty garage and now its in a clean almost environmentally controlled master bedroom and should have been having this problem in the garage. Not here.
Do you see obvious blackness on parts of the turnout?
Are you running metal wheels, or plastic wheels?
What are the symptoms that cause you to run the track cleaner?
I’ve got a Bowser trolley with brass wheels. I need to clean the wheels after a half-hour of operation, every time. On the other hand, I have had my layout under construction now for two years, and I’ve never done a general track cleaning. I think the Bowser grabs it all for me.
But, something is putting crud down on your layout. My guess is, you’ve got a couple of cars with plastic wheels that are “moulting.” Try running only half your rolling stock at a time, and then the other half. See if that makes a difference. If possible, isolate the metal and plastic wheel groups. If running all-metal works, then try adding one or two plastic-wheel cars at a time until you get the buildup. Then you’ll know who the culprit is.
I used to have this problem on a regular basis until I cleaned all my track with Blue Magic metal polish nearly a year ago. Now all I have to do is a light dusting if the layout hasn’t been used in a while.
James, try going over your troublesome areas with a clean wipe impregnated with isopropyl alcohol next time you clean the track with this blue stuff. Do the track cleaner first if you have faith in it, but I’m guessing it is leaving just enough whatever behind that arcing at the frog or points is causing carbon to build up. Isopropyl alcohol should remove much of what your track cleaning solvent leaves behind.
No matter what, I think it is related to dirty wheels, arcing at tight areas where some potential shorting or gaps between powered rails is taking place, and residue.
I assume you know to use metal wheels whenever possible?
Not exactly blackness. But there is a slight grainy brown film I notice on the closure rails and points.
I mixture of both. I conceed that metal wheels are superior to plastic wheels. But metal wheels are expensive and I am on a budget. So I only Replace them when the wheels wear out on my cars.
Im running an ABBA Set of P1K F-3s and as they cross my turnouts they cut out one by one and you can hear the dead unit being dragged and pushed by the other engines that are still live. But when I run my Walthers Track Cleaning Car The problem goes a way.
In my dream world yes I would. I have tried real hard to purchase rolling stock that has come with metal wheels in recent purchases. However I am on a shoe string budget ($50.00 a month) (Which is better than $50.00 a year I was on) And metal wheels are a low priority when it comes to iether being able to operate the rolling stock. and bad order it because of plastic wheels. So I have been waiting until the something goes wrong with the wheel before replacing it with metal wheels.
What happens when you run only the engine slooowly trough the turnout?
2a. Is it the engine? or a metal wheeled car? 2b. Is it a short, or an open? (they react similarly).
Is it ONE engine or more than one engine? or Is it ONE turnout or more than one turnout?
What is the MAKE/MODEL of the turnout??
NOW we have eliminated some possibilities and know where to look.
THIS SOUNDS LIKE a classic case of power routing (points not conveying power from the stock rails to the frog) and cleanig fluid is making the contact. The “brown” on the insides of the points and stock rails almost confirms it - if it is a ‘power-routing’ switch.
SOLUTION: Temporary: Emery cloth the inside of the point & stock rails rails where they touch. Permanent:Feed the frog from external external contacts from a switch machine.
What is make, model, and gage, of switch, and whether new or used?
If so, where did you find ‘power routing’ turnouts? Most are being phased out for DCC.
Exactly right … if you rely on contact alone to route power through the turnout you will be constantly cleaning things.
I feed the closure rails from the stock rails with jumper wires, and either use continuous points, or solder fine jumper wires from the closure rails to the points. This way it doesn’t matter how dirty the points area is, the point rails are always powered by being wired to rail feeder wires.
Doing this means you will never have to worry about dirty points again … its the easiest if you do this before you install the turnout – you can also do it after you install the turnout, it’s just a little harder, that’s all. [swg]
Truthfully, I don’t remember if they are or not. I stopped using Atlas turnouts years ago because of they were causing too many problems. Others will probably disagree with this but I can’t see how a company that makes such fantastic locos and rolling stock can make such crummy track.
I’ve noticed the same black, crusty dirt problem at our 20 x 40 foot HO scale club layout in the area near turnout points and frogs. I have tentatively traced the problem to dirt on rolling stock wheels being rubbed off onto the rail in those areas where rails diverge from the main route and the parts of the wheel tread that don’t ordinarily touch the rail come into contact with it; i.e., most HO scale wheels are much wider than their prototypes and only about half of the wheel tread is in full contact with the rail. The remainder hangs over the side. When that overhanging part of the wheel passes over a frog or point rail and the outer half of the tread touches those rails, the dirt rubs off onto it.
We use metal polish to clean the track, but there are too many hundreds upon hundreds of wheelsets to clean by hand and avoid this problem. We just keep a Peco track cleaning block handy for spot touchup.
And I don’t think this has anything to do with whether you use metal or plastic wheels, since the part of them that doesn’t ordinarily touch the rail probably picks up dirt equally, just from static electricity attraction.
Oh oh. NoTHEY ARE NOT (back to the drawing board).
NOW sounds like (1) power not getting to the closure rails, or (2) metal wheels are shorting over frog. DO YOU have an NMRA gage?
Are these OLD switches? Atlas used rivets to transfer power to the points (closure rails). These do go bad.
Better to go back & answer the questions posed, originally- you have provided no clues - except ''Atlas". Not even what gage.
An Ammeter (or 12v. Grain of wheat bulb between 2 alligator clip terminated wires) may be what you will need for tracking down the problem. Simplest answer might be to try all new switches.
My Atlas Code 83 turnouts, both No. 4 and No. 6, have switch points mechanically and electrically attached to the outside rails (at the pivot joints), so they always get power through the joints, not from contact at the points.
BTW, these Atlas turnouts have Insulfrogs, and all rails are permanently powered, no matter which way the turnout is set. My standard practice is to insulate the track going to the reverse side of the turnout and provide power to it separately. That way I can operate on the siding independently from the main (I’m not using DCC). The frogs on the No. 6 turnouts have a place to make an electrical connection to provide power to the frog from a relay or a switch machine. This may be necessary for equipment that has electrical pickups in only one truck.
I don’t have a lot of “mileage” on my new layout, but when I just went and inspected it, the only place I have any dirt is on the switches at and near the points. Strange coincidence. But so far I haven’t had any failure to conduct electricity, even with my two oldest and most finicky units.
I would follow the above advice to find out whether one or more engines or pieces of rolling stock are depositing dirt.
One locomotive slowly through the turnout will momentarily lose power before regaining contact on the other side.
2a. It is the locomotives. Metal wheeled cars have no effect on problem. 2b. I do not know. I do not possess the proper meter (i.e. expensive) to determine which is the exact problem
It is most of my 4 axal motive power fleet. My Steam locomotives and my Athearn 6 Axal motive power seem not to be effected. (Note most of my Non Athearn 6 Axal power is unservicable for various reasons) The problem occurse at 3 out of 4 turnouts on a consistant basis and some times the 4th turnouts puts on a performance as well.
These are Atlas #4 and #6 switches. They were installed new but are about 8 years old however.
Have you tried installing more feeders? You may even need to put feeders in the middle of the turnouts. It really does sound like it’s the turnouts not making good contact, although I’m not sure that the Atlas turnouts even depend on point contact for power.
If it makes you feel any better, some of my engines have problems on some of my Atlas turnouts, too. Mostly, it’s the switcher with the traction tires (only 3 power-pickup axles) and the Bowser trolley (poor pickups - and brass wheels that get dirty very quickly.)
Well for what ever its worth, I will be able to do a top to bottom inspection of my atlas switches here in the near future. I have decided to go through with my track realignment that had initially caused my intial plans for expansion. However. I have decided to not do the expansion for now because I can not seem to come up with a satisfactory track plan that allows me the kind of access to the track I need while being able to incorporate the existing layout. So I will just realign my track and go with what I had originally planned and build a bigger and better layout when I get my house. Who knows if I do it right I might be able to think of a way to include this layout into the new one when I get there. But I will probably start on the realignment here in about three weeks. (Im on a freight car building binge at the moment and don’t want to stop)
Apparently all those years Ago I missed soldering a few Rail Joiners. I would have given then a quick touch but a major realignment is about to happen here in a week or so. So I will just live with the problem and be sure to correct it when I get everything back in place