I’m going to say something that might be slightly controversial, but what the heck…
If you’re new to MRR, go with a round the room shelf layout.
I’m actually finding it a lot harder to plan and build a deep layout that looks both good, and is functional at the same time. It’s really hard to pull off the illusion of a realistic layout when you have a train that moves around in a circle on a 4x8. The exception to this is the center divided 4x8 which is essential two shelf layouts back to back with curves around the side.
While there is considerably more carpentry involved with shelf layout if has several benefits that greatly outway a simple 4x8
An around the room layout allows for a larger layout in terms of total square feet.
A shelf layout allows you to build your layout in smaller modular sections. Each section can be it’s own diorama and slid into place. As your skill grows, you can pull a diorama out and replace it
There are greater turn radiuses involved with round the room layouts. This allows for more realisitc appearances for larger equipment.
you are correct if that’s what you prefer…i’m a tall man and don’t care for shelf layouts…I can’t see them very good because the top shelf blocks the view of the bottom shelf…you are correct in that you can build a longer layout but when you’re tall like me it’s best to stick with a tiered dogbone type layout…my layout starts at 48" and is 72" at it’s apex but the catch is… i can see everything…chuck
I agree - a shelf layout enables you to have a lot of scenery in a small space. As you’re only modelling a 6in-12in wide “slice” of railroad you can save on scenery (and the time taken to add it) but still create an excellent model. You can also have both industrial and rural scenery without having an obvious clash - your line can start in an urban setting and end in a relatively rural area. If you mount the layout higher up it will help - if you have your eyes roughly at the level of a HO scale railfan’s in relation to the model then you’ll see as much of the layout as you would of the real thing when standing trackside. My 12in deep shelf layout was mounted at about chest height using those clip-in shelf brackets that hook onto uprights screwed to the wall, access for track cleaning wasn’t a problem and the effect didn’t look too shabby to my mind. You can also put storage cupboards underneath which will be an immense help if you have to share space with a spare room or less enthusiastic individuals - pointing out that it’ll only be a 1ft deep strip along one wall may help with negotiations!
I think there is a place for both. Having said that, there are more cases where I think the shelf is more appropriate for the space than the 4 x 8. The 4 x 8, I think, is more appropirate if you forsee moving it a lot.
Not just for newbie’s…but for people hurting for space.
I’m in the process of packing up my frieght cars and equpment. Soon as that’s done, an around-the-room shelf layout is going up. I would prefer a board type of layout, but I have to share space with a computer and my hundreds of books.
As mentioned on another thread, this one will be high so that I can get a realistic view instead of a helicoptor view of the scene.
I hope to fit a double track mainline, a diesel facility and a mid-sized 1960s American town with several small industries. Being the 60s, passenger trains are a must! Will be DCC. I plan on having the majority of my units equipped with sound as well.
Multi level is not a prerequisite for a shelf layout. It sounds like your trying to build it too low, for your height.
All I have room for is a small shelf layout, with a narrow shelf down the other wall for staging. I’d be hard pressed to ge even a 3’ x 7’ layout on a door in here. I’m not fond of island layouts, anyway.
I agree. Shelf-style or layouts built around the perimiter of the room are a much more efficient use of space and allow better and more realistic layout design possibilities. You can have broad radii and build different scenes and industries that don’t clash. You can easily modify or rebuild sections as your skills improve or tastes change. Like myself, you can even have two or more different scales on the same layout! I have On30 on three sides of the room and a shared side with HO scale scenery. Since On30 and HO standard use the same gauge, they can share some of the tracks on that module. I was even thinking of building a small shelf extension to try out Gn15. That’s G scale that runs on HO track. The possibilities are almost limitless. You can also use the room for other purposes since the layout does not monopolize all the space.
One other ‘advantage’ of an around the room layout that I would throw into the mix is that you will be standing inside the curve radii as the train travels around the room. Due to the small radii used in MR in comparison to prototype the gaping hole created between cars is considerably worse (to me) when viewed from the outside of the curve as you would with a 4x8 or other island layout. close coupling helps, but a passenger train traversing a 22"r curve just dont look good (to me) from the outside edge.
Whatever suits you , just enjoy it, as with everything else in this hobby, alot is personal preference.
David Barrow’s South Plains District covered in the September to December 1996 issues of MR lends itself to good possibilities in construction and operation of shelf style layouts.A minimum of 5 sections of 4 foot length shelves arranged in an ‘L’ fashion with a small yard and industries and/or town of sorts.Utilizing 4 axle diesels or 0-8-0(or smaller) steam switchers and cars of no more than 50-55 foot long would give plenty of operational possibilities for 2 operators.If built correctly,it could be moved and expanded upon for a larger system.Also,if 100 cars were utilized for operations the layout could be operated in ‘shifts’ to give other operators an opportunity to ‘play’ as well,especially if larger industries were modeled.
Industries could be modeled as either a wall of a building mounted on the backdrop,or half structure opened up,or even mounted on front edge of layout.Remember when Andy Sperandeo built the Wa***a & Santa Fe(1980’s MR) and had a tank car loading dock on the front edge to represent a refinery customer?
With the small engines and 50 foot cars,the curve radii could be anywhere from 22 inch to 30 inches depending on preference.
I, too, am a fan of David Barrow’s south plains district. It doesn’t take up too much space, and has much more operating potential than a 4 x 8.
One thing slightly more difficult to achieve with shelf layouts is continuous running. This is something I’ve been struggling with a lot in designing my next layout.
With a shelf, you either have to:
a) have a lift up, swing out, or duckunder section
or
b) be able to enter the layout room through a stairway in the center of the room
or
c) have return “blobs” - where the train does a U-turn, preferebly with a backdrop between the two sides of the U-turn.
I’m opting for a liftout section because my layout will be two small to have even a single blob. If you’ve got one blob, you need two if you’re going to have continuous running.
Like Chip said, the nice thing about a 4 x 8 is it’s totally self-contained and easy to move.
Around the room layouts have all the advantages you’re talking about. The disadvantage is that it takes longer and costs more in materials to get the layout going. For a newcomer on a limited budget or just not sure what’ this hobby is all about the good old 4x8 may be the better start. It allows you to quickly get some trains running while you decide whether a double track mainline running diesels is better than a branchline with an old consolidation.
But this is a hobby where one size does not fit all, go with what looks best to you.
Enjoy
Paul
Why does a shelf layout have to cost more than a 4x8? A 4x8 sheet of lumber is 32 square feet–but if you split that 4x8 sheet into two 2x8 sheets, you have a nice L-shaped layout that will fit along two walls of a room. And with four 1x8 sheets, you can run a shelf layout around the walls of an 8x10 foot small bedroom. Plus, you don’t have to build the whole thing at once–start with a 2x8 shelf switcher and work your way around the room! I suppose that a few more board-feet of 1x2 lumber is needed for 32 square feet of plywood shelf layout, but not that much more. And because there is less wasted space on a shelf layout, you might end up buying more track per square foot…
Shelf layouts are great. I bought my bit of lumber and started out with a 3x6 loop plan with a bunch of spurs and whatnot, and ran trains around it until I got bored–then I started working on a shelf layout with the remaining bits of lumber and really started having fun! It helps if you’re like me and would rather watch trains go back and forth than round and round.
If your room size is 8x10 (none of the rooms in my house are this size) then a sheet of plywood ripped into 4 1x12’s will work. But you still have to have some support system and you have to deal with the door (maybe two if there’s a closet). Depending on how you do this (and if you’re allowed to make holes in the wall) I think in most cases you’ll exceed the cost of supporting a 4x8 sheet of plywood. You’ll also take longer to get it set up. 2nd, with a longer mainline you need more track and roadbed for the initial oval to get you started.
Your example of the L shaped layout using 2x8 sections doesn’t allow for continuous running, a feature most newcomers want in their first layout. And 2 2x8 sections require more material for support.
Again, I’m not advocating one over the other even for a newcomer, just pointing out that for many newcomers a 4x8 may be the best choice for a first layout.
A 4 by 8 is probably harder to build than a shelf layout, especially if the plan calls for a complex arrangement of switches. A 4 by 8 has to come together at some point and plenty of newbies laying flex track for the first time realize that a few switches that are a mere eighth of an inch out of line will make this impossible. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing. Maybe for a newbie to really learn how to lay track well a more difficult 4 by 8 will teach these skills better.
The advantage of a shelf layout is that the room can be used for something other than a train room. They layout doesn’t take up any more room than book cases.
While a shelf layout may be the logical choice of more advanced hobbyists, especially those largely intent on doing operations, it tends to be ill-suited to most beginners.
Shelf layouts take longer to get operational over a reasonable running distance and require much more construction time and more materials. Mounting and leveling modular designs are far more difficult and you are less likely to end up with smooth running trains on the beginner’s first try. Typically, shelf layouts do not extend fully around the room and are, thus, point-to-point. Beginners overwhelmingly desire to see their trains run…they are not into operations. Even for hobbyists with years in model railroading, 2/3 still prefer running trains to operations. Likewise, the wiring of a shelf layout tends to be more complex and the length of wiring runs can be a problem. Scenery-wise, unless the shelves are unusually deep, they tend to be very limited in scenery application and decidely lack realism, looking rather like cardboard cutouts in a shadowbox picture. And just try representing either a mountainous or urban scene realistically in a 12 inch or so depth.
What it simply boils down to what your personal likes are and how you intend to operate your own layout: operations or running trains. Personally, I’d never recommend a shelf layout to a green beginner. The most likely outcome would be disappointment. Shelf layouts are certainly nothing new but have you ever given thought as to why MR always offers 4x8 projects for rank beginners?
You’re assuming a double decker when nothing was said about that. Most shelf layouts I have seen are NOT double deckers. My “L” shaped layout, for example is 50 inches above the floor. Next layout will be a higher, perhaps 55 to 60 inches for more of a railfan perspective, but will still be a shelf layout. I like switching and I like the illusion of moving from one location to another which is easier to accomplish on a shelf layout, expeciall an “L”, “E” or similar shaped one.
i’m not building a shelf layout anyway…i have a room that’s big enough for a multi level tiered dogbone layout…and yes…I see what you mean now…a shelf layout, not a double decker layout…I just got back from a bunch of layout tours in which most of them were double decker layouts built in a shelf layout design…and every one of them interfered with my line of vision…that’s what my final conclusion was about the double decker layouts although the helix’s were nice…chuck