Wow, see today’s News Wire story about the California legislator who would tie French participation in high-speed rail there to disclosure of SNCF’s services to the occupying Nazis during World War II.
Never mind that SNCF had no choice about doing the Nazis’ bidding. (That’s what occupation means.) And that all the legislator has to do is read SNCF’s own 2000 review of those activities. His apparent purpose is just to stir up hatred of furriners who might qualify for a construction plum.
If this were to work against the (occupied) French, just think how effective a tool it might be against the railroad builders who bombed Pearl Harbor!
Wow, again. I can’t believe the post above got bleeped for use of the informal name – and the possessive – of the German political party that prosecuted World War II. There must be an interesting rationale for that. If the name is good enough for the News Wire, why not for the Forum?
In the meantime, I don’t want anybody to think my offense was bad language.
I don’t consider it offensive. It’s history. Perhaps NSDAP is better? Ridiculous. And holding the actions of the SNCF in WWII against them now 65+ years later is absurd. I suppose Siemens is disqualified as well by that strained logic.
Beware of people with hidden ‘politically (not so) correct’ agendas!
Of course the question could not be addressed to the non-Caucasian potential bidders - that would smack of racism. Nor could it be addressed to our good Cold-War allies, Germany. So, since France refused to back us in Vietnam and routinely goes its own way in international affairs, that makes SNCF a legitimate (?!!!) target.
Totally ignored in the whole business is whether the people who actually have built and are currently running a successful high speed rail system have the technical and industrial expertise to bid. Also totally ignored is that the questioner has overlooked the passage of 65 plus years, the terrible damage done to the SNCF (and other French property and people) by Allied action during WWII, the fact that the French Resistance never stopped their campaign of sabotage…
Hey. Was the weenie who raised the question even alive in 1944-45? (I was, but as a 7 year old I was rather less than concerned with events on the other side of an ocean I couldn’t see across.)
Along those lines, the Japanese would also be disqualified for their use of Allied POW’s as slave labor.
Seems pretty silly to me as well.
I believe you have it backwards: The logic which disqualifies SNCF would favor the Japanese because we “mistreated” so many Japanese-Americans during WWII (plus, we A-bombed Japan, and, even worse, we had the unbridled arrogance to win that war). You just have to recognize what passes for California-Thought.
It isn’t just California-thought, whatever that is. The state legislator is obviously pandering to a lot of anti-foreign resentment without obviously saying “Buy American or else”. He may be a little more creative than most but the underlying sentiment extends far beyond the Golden State.
But if the thought is “Buy America,” the legislator should come right out and say that instead of something that evinces ignorance of the history of France in WWII.
Politics aside, I’ve been wondering for a long time why so many jobs that involve things like transportation, garbage collection, etc have been outsourced to foreign countries. Doesn’t that send the profits of those operations overseas? Sure, we’re in a so called ‘global economy’ but jobs that are traditionally ‘home jobs’ are being staffed by foreign corporations.
From time to time I’ve received those FWD emails about “Buy American.” I personally find those things idiotic and uninformed, especially since Americans, being the capitalists they are, buy with they pocketbook rather than the Made in the USA tag. Most don’t care where it comes from as long as it’s cheap and doesn’t fall apart right away. Did anyone ever ask the question “Given equal quality, would you buy a $100 American item or a $30 foriegn one?” Obviously, the normal, red blooded American buys the cheaper item, as anyone who has been to Walmart, any car lot, et al can see. If there were a lot of flag waving Americans that purchase “By the Tag,” the stores would be stocked with high priced American goods, rather than lower priced foreign goods.
After all, when was the last time you bought an American TV, an American camera, an American piece of clothing? Where are all of the textile mills that dotted New England? They all went boke because Americans bought better, foreign items at a lower price. What happened to all of the steel mills in the Steel City and where are the auto manufacturers in Detroit? Buy American? What’s there to buy anymore? As far as SNCF goes, the same could be said about Germany, Italy, Japan, China, and just about everyone else that’s involved in high speed rail. Umm, is there anyone else we can disqualify. As for Buying American, just exactly who did this pinhead have in mind? Where did all of the companies involved in US passenger rail go? They all died decades ago along with the other American industr
The French, Brits, Germans, etc. feel the same way about American companies taking over companies based in their country. There was grumbling about Kraft Foods buying Cadbury Chocolate in Britain, and so on. Caterpillar took over a smaller German manufacturer. the list goes on and on.
As an American Jewish Railfan living in Jerusalem, I frankly think the California Legislature is just plain bonkers on this. None of the people who were forced to work for the Nazis or who did so willingly (and there are good and bad people in every population) are actively working or have any responsibilities at the French railways today.
If Californians really wish to honor the six million plus other victims of the Nazis today, they could do a lot better by seeing which governments and which national leaders spout Nazi ideoligy today and not be so quick to blame real victims for other victims suffering instead of the national leaders that preach Nazism, teach that terrorism is the highest calling for a young man or woman, and then complain of their people’s suffering when steps are taken for protection against the terrorism they create.
Exactly. Starting about the 1920s already, the course of American railroading diverged from that of Europe, Japan and much of the rest of the world. Uniquely American factors such as population concentration and distribution, and government policy, caused the airplane and automobile to just about destroy the passenger train as a defensible economic enterprise in most places here. And our domestic builders starved out long before the proposed revival could come along.
Even now, how much of your own money would you sink into a startup company, gambling that the Obama initiative will have staying power? Through successive administrations and the political vicissitudes?
I take a back seat to nobody in either my economic patriotism, where it can still be practiced, or my love of passenger trains. In this case, however, I think it only makes sense that the early suppliers will come from those countries where the passenger train has been a continuous proposition and never suffered an American-style interruption of its evolution.
Should HSR turn out to have legs, I am confident we can trust good old Yankee enterprise and know-how – which are far from being dead – to jump in with both feet and give the French, Japanese and others a run for their money.
Let’s also remember that Marshall Plan US tax dollars helped re-build SNCF after World War II.Baldwin also built locomotives for SNCF. This was also the time when the rest of the world looked to America to set the transportation standard. In the late 1940’s the best train in the World ran between Chicago and the Twin Cities; in the mid 60’s it ran between Tokyo and Osaka.Frankly; it is very hard to read about TGV in Trains current issue. Twice as hard on July 4th!!!
This country had better realize just how far we have fallen. The French were NOT shy about asking for help following World War II. America needs all the help it can get in developing High Speed Rail, Let’s not be shy in asking for help either.
Let’s also remember that Siemens, which has a proven record of building not just HSR trainsets, but also manufactures catenary and signally needed, has a US division that employs 60,000 American workers.