[soapbox] I am getting very concerned and very disappointed in this forum and the actions by a select group of persons.
My problem is that when someone places a post here to ask a question or get an opinion the someone has to be aggressive or hostile toward them for no reason.
Why do some feel that they need to act out like this and disrespect a fellow modeler in this fasion.
It is very hard to promote a hobby and show its values when some choose to berate and belittle others for having a differnt view.
I model a modern era but I would never disrespect a modeler who chooses to model early steam. Nor would I tell someone they are wrong when I have no facts I might state my opinion but not disrespect them.
MY solution to this simple Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Think Before you type.
Some may choose to flame me for this but just remember those who do will only draw attention to themselfs and give truth to what I have said.[2c]
I´m thinking about this guy from Sweden who got stiffed by an MRR dealer and had been told how dumb he was in the first place. What I´d have expected is that some regular Mike´s customer calls the shop and asks the owner what went wrong, rather than flaming the poor guy to a crisp.
Like you said, I would not think of criticising people for what they model. Heck, I met a guy in my LHS the other day when I picked up my Atlas 8-40CW, and he got his Spectrum one. He thought his was “better”. Why ruin that fellow´s day? He wasn´t rude, all he did was point out why he thought his model was better (detail and drive train), I didn´t quite agree, but all in a very polite way.
this is to point out this trend to try to stop it. look at Electros post on the hobby shop problem some have flat out told him it is all his fault with out having both sides of the story or knowing the facts.
Kiel-
Thanks for pointing that out that was one of the examples I was thinking of and that was the right thing to do with that fellow with the other loco we all have an opnion but we should not force it on others as the only one to have. yours is a good example of how to promote the hobby with out ever having to do a thing just show respect.
I will not answer any more questions regarding Tonys before I have heard from them. I do NOT want to be a part of this. I respect everyone, and I love this forum. That’s it!
Electro I was not trying to single you out just bring to light this growing problem of overly agressive people flaming others for no reason. I believe you in what you have told us as I have no reason not to and I trust all will work out to your satisfaction.
I agree with most people here
i love these forums and i want to keep these kind of unneeded clashes from happening
also, i hope i havent been a culprit of any of these problems, and if so, i apologize
I think it has a lot to do with the breakdown of what we used to consider good manners. If you notice on any forum shows on TV, nobody listens while another person talks, anymore, they just interrupt with THEIR side of the position, instead of quietly awaiting their turn. Somehow the word ‘argument’ (which originally meant ‘premise’ or ‘explanation’) has been downgraded to a verbal–and sometimes physical–shoving match.
And it’s extremely easy to let your fingers wander over the keyboard with snide and hurtful comments, since basically, we ARE–by and large–insulated from each other by our computers. For some people, this is an invitation to a form of verbal abuse that they quite probably wouldn’t DARE to use in person.
I had an incident of ‘flaming’ not too long ago on another forum–a Classic Movie forum, where someone decided that my knowledge and enthusiasm for Classic movies automatically made me–and I quote–“A Pretentious —hole.” Now I’ve been on the forum exchanging ideas with fellow movie buffs for the past five years, and this person popped out of nowhere–and promptly disappeared after a few more posts–and cast a pretty big pall over the forum for about a week. We’re still recuperating from that one.
Personally, I don’t believe in ‘flaming’, I think it’s counter-productive, especially on a forum like this where we’re trading ideas. I’m a lover of big steam (just got my first diesel and it’s a model of a 1935 streamliner), and that’s what I run, but that’s what I like PERSONALLY. It 's not the end-all and be-all of model railroading, this hobby is FAR too varied. Several people I correspond regularly with and have become friends with are 100% diesel, a steamer might seem out of place on their layouts. But the important thing is that we’re model RAILROADERS, and there’s more than enough room in this hobby to enjoy each others likes and dislikes without resorting to snide, hurtful and downgrading comments.
As always you are a man of much insite and knowledge. there are many on this forum that offer insite and pass on information with out any bias others do not, Congrats on the new loco I hope it serves you well. Truth be told Tom I love steam I just choose to model what I know which isnt much. I enjoy this forum too much to let these kill joys run me off. The debates that happen are ok its the name calling and such that bothers me since younger modelers do use this forum.
This unfortunate trend is the result of increased participation. The larger a group of people involved, the greater chance the the group is going to have at least one bad apple who has nothing constructive to contribute to the forum. I do not condone this kind of expression but apply a philosophy that makes it easy to ignore their rants: “If there weren’t any ***s in the world, we could not appreciate the other nice people we deal with.”
In any forum, in all LHS’s, in any group there are those who have to be in control and have to be right all the time. Unfortunate but true. I usually just avoid replying to those topics that get nasty. When I make a post, I always preview it first and ask myself how it would sound if I was someone else reading it. I’m certainly not perfect in my replies to others on the forum but I try to keep things friendly and civil.
Another huge problem I have noticed is “one upmanship”. If somebody thinks that their Tyco Spirit of '76 Alco is the greatest thing since sliced bread, leave it be. Boy , that would look great pulling a string of those new Overland Hi-Level cars.
Good thread! I agree with you. Another example is a few of the comments I’ve gotten on my thread “Another Hobby Shop Issue - Resolved.” I shot back a little bit and probably shouldn’t have, but some of the more sharp-tongued fools make it very difficult to turn the other cheek.
Leon -
I don’t agree that this is the result of increased participation - this forum has been pretty active, and generally pretty civil, for several years now. I think it’s the result of who is participating. Through immaturity, sanctimony, superiority, smugness, glee or some combination, a few people just love to point out why someone who has a problem is a moron for being in that position. And “Oh, gee, if you were just like me, you jackass, your life would be so much better!”
It isn’t enough for these folks to simply state something like “I think you were in the wrong because…,” it has to be couched in a derogatory or accusatory tone something like “…do your homework first!” or “Since it was clearly your mistake…” Well, that kind of stuff is not at all useful, and it only serves to antagonize.
So what’s the point? Or do they really have one at all?
I´ve collected 1:400 diecast planes before, and this sort of behaviour imho sent more than one good forum downstream.
I won´t have it. None of it, not any more. We are ALL wrong at some time, in our lives, and in our hobby, and in general. If everybody accepts this, the forum will be a lot friendlier.
Like in my example, why pick on the guy? Maybe he didn´t have the money for the Atlas. Maybe the Atlas was sold out before he came. Or, maybe he´s not concerned about detail, but, like, about looooong trains? This way, I´ve made a friend, with whom I can talk about US trains - in Europe, these folks are hard to find. And, maybe I´m wrong. Who knows.
Electro, you just acted the “European” way. I´d have done the same things you have. I hope your rails are simply still en route to the hobby store, and that everything will work out fine. Are you aware that you can order anything from the Walthers catalogue from European dealers, too? That might save you some money on s+h. In D, they usually convert the US Dollar 1:1 to cover their costs. You would save import duties, like customs and taxes, if you order from EU countries.
I wouldn’t mind having a tyco spirit of '76 alco, I am trying to get the whole tyco line of '76, I only have one box car right now though. My biggest concern is when someone has a problem with a locomotive or piece of rolling stock and some one says oh, it is a piece of junk throw it out and buy this expensive brass locomotive that no one can really afford but you should get it any way.[xx(]
Do you really think that’s an accurate description of the situation? He was sent the wrong items, the dealer told him to return them and they’d send him the correct ones.
That’s being “stiffed?”
Now, it’s true that it’s a month later and the dealer still hasn’t received the returned items, so the dealer hasn’t sent the new ones. Perfectly reasonable since it’s a first time, overseas, customer.
But the guy from Sweden seems to think that somehow it’s the shop’s fault that the returned items haven’t gotten back to the US. He wants the new stuff now and keeps slamming the dealer.
Nobody’s called him names, just pointed out that there is shared blame - he should have sent them back in some verifiable way. Hopefully the stuff will show up soon, but his beef is with the post office - not the dealer.