There are so many large layouts with large yards. Yet, never have I seen a hump yard! (despite the plethora of hump-type locomotives being sold).
In years of searching, I’ve only seen one model RR hump yard and it was under construction:
http://www.railroadmuseum.net/images/Hump%20Yard%2040221a.jpg
CTT has shown a few over the years. Most people haven’t the room for one, and we don’t have scale retarders to help us keep control of the cars.
Dave, I like humping. Do you like humping? The main reason that there are few or no successful hump yards is that you need a pretty high lump to hump. I don’t know if you have ever seen a hump yard close up but I have. Years ago when I was on the ICRR they took us trainees out to Markham Yards to visit the hump. We stood in the tower and watched the operator “pickle” the cars (direct cars to the various tracks), we stood in the scale booth under the hump track, we watched up close as the retarders controlled the speed of the cars. We even watched the “pin puller” walk around and around in a little circle pulling the cutbars at the top of the hump. The hydraulic retarders are so powerful that they can squeeze the wheels right up to the top of the rails. IMO the main reason that there are so few successful model hump yards is that most cars either do not roll freely enough or carry enough mass to roll down the hump and gently roll out to its designated track. Also I have never heard of a successful retarder system for a model pike. An O scale hump would probably be about four or five feet high and the straight line grade up the hump might be 25 or 30 feet long, the slope down the hump and the tail tracks might be another 40 or 50 feet. Then you have to figure in space for a train to approach the hump and for the flat switching and exit from the hump…need I go on? Even for a guy who says he likes to hump this might be too much for you. Odd-d
There was a hump yard article in Model Railroader years ago where compressed air was used as a retarder via small jets blasting the trucks. Considering the weight of our O gauge cars, I wonder if compressed air would provide enough pressure to slow them down. A good challenge would be to adjust air pressure for individual cars with different weights and rolling characteristics as they enter the hump. I suppose you could experiment with individual cars and record the car number with the optimum air pressure to get it down to the proper speed. In this case you could index a regulator handle and adjusting the regulator buy reading the car number and setting the regulator off a cheat sheet telling which setting to use. The cars would have to enter the retarder at a consistent speed so a digital speedometer would be needed at the yard throat.
Dave,
With the excellent title you have on this post - I am truely unable to comment [:D] [:O]
Wr,
He should try my idea of humping on air.
…my guess is there is a lot of air humpin’ goin’ on…once I get it perfected I’ll post my method…
A friend of mine is about 90% complete on his O gauge hump yard.
He is using Atlas track and a pair of fan switches (multiple lead turn-
outs). His leads are about 10 feet to 12 feet long each. The yard itself
is about 30 inches wide. The drop (as I remember) is about 1 inch
every four feet. The drop was worked out by first building the yard table,
then constructing a test lead track and coasting the lightest/oldest cars
down the leads while adjusting the end of the table for height. Once the
desired height was found permanent legs were built. Imitation cement
blocks (painted wood) were used for end bumpers and the side facing
the track ends are covered with color matched grey carpet. The yard is
now built and functioning. Scenery comes next. One idea we are going
to experiment with is fabricating some adjustable side panels along the
tracks that look like guard rails and line them with felt and adjust them
for slight friction against the car sides, Right now, though, the yard is
working so well that construction of the “retarders” is not needed.
The owner is using mostly new Atlas, MTH, and Weaver rolling stock, but
has a few Lionel postwar pieces as well. We tested using a sample from
each manufacturer. Hope this helps a bit.
I think that the old Atlas King Size Layout book for HO had an adjustible hump on one of their layouts. Even though it was HO, the idea should work in O. Basically, the crest of the hump was adjusted up or down by a screw and wingnut system. No retarders were used that I recall.
I personally would not try one as my space is limited. It would be an interesting design feature on a larger layout.
[:-,][tup][:D][:-^][yeah] I like
The January 1979 issue of Model Railroader has an article by Larry Keeler on his computer controlled hump yard which he built in HO. His system was complete with speed detectors, retarders, etc. He observed that “the major error in the system is the fact that some of the cars roll one way coming down the hill and then the roll characteristics change after they’ve gone through the retarder.”
He mentioned he tried a number of HO trucks and had settled on a single brand. He also noted he weighted his cars with 5 oz of lead per car. He commented that he thought this was probably overkill and he stated "if you have a good pair of trucks it really doesn’t matter how much weight you put on them. " He said it was a very smooth operation. If it was smooth by 1979 standards (and in HO) I’m sure it would be even better today.
The big problem, as has been mentioned, is real estate. To this end you could build a kickback yard - a practice that was common on the real railroads when they too didn’t have enough room. In this setup the hump and the yard are in parallel. The car drops off of the hump, accelerates downgrade through a switch and then back up another incline. It pauses for a moment and then gravity takes over and then the car is “kicked back” down the track, through the switch which is now aligned to the yard track. From there it is a matter of retarders and yard switch settings.
I like ummmm…wait a minute…what are we talking about???
[:p][:p][:p][:p][:p]
underworld
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
Very interesting topic. I’ve often wondered how feasable a hump yard would be in a layout, as it certainly would add allot of fun to one.
Actually now I remember seeing a hump yard ( HO scale ) in the late 70s
either in Model Railroder or RMC…I’m pretty sure it was in Model Railroader.
Would have probably been in 78 or 79. Now I have to try to find some of those old mags!
underworld
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
Hey Guys,
You might want to think of refraising the title, such as Hump Yards or such.
I once thought of putting a hump yard in.
I was going to use a Lionel draw bridge as a catalist to uncouple the cars and, at the same time send them on their way. I would use toggle switches to throw the switches in the yard. Then to slow the cars down I would use the magnetic track sections that are used to uncouple cars.
I think it still might work, But I opted for a turntable and round house.
Hey, it’s wednesday - HUMP DAY -
What would the pictures be like if we started posting pictures every hump day?
Paul,
Don’t be giving Duda any more ideas! [;)] [:D]
New York Society of Model Engineers has an HO layout and an O scale layout in their club building in Carlstad (sp) New Jersey. The HO layout has had an operating hump yards for many years. I believe the cars are slowed by bursts of compressed air coming from under the trackwork. Really neat to watch.
Should work in O but it would be a large real estate venture. New AtlasO cars for example roll very well so perhaps the air compressor idea would work here as well. Tubing for air is angled to allow the air blasts to hit the car as it comes down the hill. Multiple air locations but all triggered at the same time so the operator doesn’t have to hit different buttons as car desends the hill.
Have to remember that all railroad cars are not humpable, depending on cargo
for one thing.
Depending on the pressure, compressed air should do fine to slow O gauge trains down. Consider all of the things you can do with compressed air:
In fact, if the air pressure is too high (I think > 200 psi), you can’t aim it at your skin. If you did, you’d risk getting air bubbles in your blood stream.
Tony