As I start to buy some of my first locos, I was wondering if I should try to buy in pairs, so that I can run like the prototypes? Do most modern diesels run as consists or does it just depend on power, moving trains around, etc? Obviously it gets expensive to have to buy two or more of everything. If I wanted to run my trains like the protos, does anyone know how often they see consists or just a single loco?
If I do run consists, can I run two different loco series (example, SD38 & SD40) or do they normally run the same exact loco (example SD40 & SD40)? Have you ever seen two different lines consist together(example, UP & SF)?
Yes,modern diesels run in multiple unit consist-usually 2-3…However,I see short freight trains pulled by a single unit.A SD40-2 can be consisted with a SD40 or any other locomotive.
Yes,Run through power is very common.You can even operate a unit consit of (say)CN locomotives.
As a example here is a BNSF unit consist on NS at Bucyrus(Oh)…
Up here in Southern Ontario CP and CN always run with at least two locomotives. Three or four is usually the norm. Sometimes we even see helpers in the middle of a big freight.
Short answer is yes, every train has a consist because the engine or group of engines on a train is called the “engine consist”, whether it be one engine or 25 engines (the most I’ve seen moving together). Most prototype through freights (trains that go between yards) are more than one unit because they need more power to pull the train. Many times locals (trains that switch industries) will be shorter and so only have one unit.
Virtually all modern units can be operated together.
Railroad tend to group engines together functionally more than by model. So they will have AC engines on a coal train. They might consider C44AC’s and SD90AC’s as the “same” type of engine so will mix them in the same fleet. Similarly C44-9 and SD70’s might be considered in the same fleet so they will mix those units in the same fleet. They will tend to use a certain fleet of engines on certain trains. For example AC engines on coal and grain, high horsepower CC units on auto and intermodal, other CC units on manifest and older CC units on work trains and locals with BB units on locals and switch engines.
There are also some units that have better emissions, so GEVOS will end up on trains going to So. California and yards in major urban areas will get the newer “green” switchers.
Railroads also operate other railroads power. Railroads coordinate trains so that the trains can run from a yard on one railroad to a yard hundreds or a thousand of miles away on the other railroad. That is called run through operations. When they do that they share power. So engines from virtually any class 1 railroad can be found on any other class 1 railroad. There may be certain trains that always have foriegn power, there may be certain trains that always have a mix of home and foreign roads.
Locos from both major builders and the smaller ones as well can be combined in any order and combination. I’ve seen 3,000 hp EMD GP40-2s consisted with 6,250 hp General Electric AC6000CW locos.
If you are running DCC, then you can tune the engine parameters so the engines you normally consist together have similar running properties. If you’re running DC, you don’t have that option. In that case, it’s probably a good idea to buy similar engines from the same manufacturer to consist with each other.
Although there is some rearward visibility from the cabs of today’s road engines, many are clearly designed with a front and back end. Since turntables have mostly disappeared and wyes require extra real estate, you will usually see the first and last engines of a consist pointing in opposite directions. At the end of the line, railroads just run the consist from the other locomotive instead of turning it.
I like to have at least 1 sound engine in each consist.
And to add to above, in consists of 3 or more, at least one of the middle engines will try to be pointed forward, in case the lead engine breaks down, one is already in place.
As for you, it depends on the locale of your layout. if your in a flatland area, you won;t need long engine consists to get over the mountains. Local trains get 1, maybe 2 if the road is shifting power around. Longer trains will be 2 engines, once in a great while 3. (Unless the road needs more engines somewhere else, when they’ll dead-head, or ride along without contributing power in a consist) If you have serious grades though, several locomotives will be a norm for any size train.
Go watch some Youtube train videos. You’ll be amazed at some of the combonations they put together. Especially the older vids.
On the local brachline they use 3 GP-10’s to do switching. They only move 10-20 cars around all day. The whole line is pretty flat. Seems like a waste of power and fuel to me.[%-)]
This is great information! Thank you. I will be running DCC, so I will have the option to align the engines if there are motor inconsistentcies. So let’s say on the modeling scale I try to have at least 2 locos on each train. Will I need to actually buy two BLI AC6000 at $200 a pop, or do you think there is an option to find the second loco as just an empty “dummy?” From what I have reseached it doesn’t seem like the manufactureres do this, so I might be stuck buying two.
I do like the fact that I can mix a series and line of trains. At least this way I can start collecting a variety of locos. From what you guys are saying and what you have seen on the proto level, I could buy an Atlas Dash-8 (Rio Grande) and a BLI AC6000 (Southern Pacific) and this would be totally normal to see correct?
It all depends on the layout type and size. If you have a small or medium size layout I’d re-consider the BLI-AC6000. I have 2 and don’t use them much because of their size in relation to my layout. I’m running an 8x8 bridged with a 9x4.
Lately I’ve been using mostly Atlas 4 axle and smaller 6 axle engines including 3 GP40’s, an SD-35, and a B23-7 that I consist all the time.
If you do go with the BLI’s and want to consist stick with the Paragon 2 series and not the Bluelines. The Bluelines are great engines but are dual decoder units. They are a pain to consist. I have a Blueline and a Paragon 2 version. When I consist them I tend to just give them the same address because of the Blueline decoder issues.
That is good to know. My home layout will be in the area of about 10’x6’ plus a staging yard. It sounds like these are pretty long trains maybe more suited for a club layout? I was really looking forward to getting a Paragon2, but their selection is limited at this time. Finding Atlas Gold series trains have been tough online too. I wouldn’t mind going with an Atlas GP40 if I could find one. Although it looks like they will be releasing some this December. I just looked at the BLI site and they could be coming out with an SD40-2 next month. Maybe I should wait for them?
So are you saying that the AC6000 would look odd on a smaller layout because of the size or lack of radius, etc?
I don’t remember the dates, but the Rio Grande BOUGHT the SP years ago, and now both are part of the Union Pacific system. So depending on your era, yes you could combine DRGW and SP, as well as UP too.
As mentioned above there is run through power, and then there is also “POWER BY THE HOUR” where railroads share locomotives as needed by trading HP HOURS. You could see any of the big railroads power on any of the others. Here in the PNW it is very common to see CP power in the consist of a UP train, sometimes I even see ALL CP power leading a UP train. I have seen NS power in BNSF consists. I have seen plenty of pictures of CSX power in UP consists, but I can’t recall any CSX power here in Oregon. Heck, I have even seen a couple of ALASKA RR locomotives in the BNSF yard in Spokane,Wa.
If you are modeling the present era, there aren’t too many consist combinations that you could put together, that haven’t happened at least once some where.
I would seek the advice and experience of others with regard to these modern behemoths. Running just one by itself might work on typical home-layout curves, but remember that consisting two of them will make coupler and overhang problems even worse. I’m a 4-axle diesel guy myself, with 18-inch curves, so I can’t give you any first-hand knowledge.
The Atlas engines are available, You just have to look around and sometimes call around.
You could also ask here or other sites like modelrailroadforums.com if anyone knows where to find them.
The BLI SD40-2’s that are releasing are the Bluelines. Consisting will have the same problems that the AC6000’s. I have one of those also from the last release and it’s a great engine. Once again just a pain to consist.
As far as the AC6000’s, I have 22 inch radius turns and the engines run great on them. I have to make sure I have an overweight car right behind it because in some instances the overhang of the engine will pull a light car off of the tracks. A modelpower metal car does the trick though. If you like the engine though go ahead and get it. You’ll be more than happy on 22 inch turns. They sound and look awesome. They do look out of place though since they are almost double the size of my other engines.
Referring back to the comment on the use of dummies. I have a number of them and use them sometimes in consists - I have even equipped one of them with a sound decoder - this is a lot easier to install than trying to fit sound into a motor driven loco. The problem is where to get decent dummies. I have picked up 2 new [old] Athearn SD40s from my LHS. I have also got a couple of good looking used locos from train shows that required some surgery [motor removal] and repainting. The dummy loco with the sound [a C630] was bought from Stewart Hobbies online - I assembled it from parts and painted it in BCR colours.
On the topic of consisting BBL locos - I agree it’s not straight forward but I did manage it. I like the idea of giving them the same address - I think I will do this in future.
The AC6000’s would pretty much be limited to higher speed premium trains. The C44-9’s were also premium power trains.
After the UP merger the SP AC’s were used as 2nd units on coal trains, UP leader, SP 2nd unit, UP DP unit. The SP and DRGW power spent most of its time on lines south of the UP’s E-W main line, such as the Sunset and Cotton Belt Routes.
The AC6000’s were very unsuccessful engines. The diesel motors in them had various problems. virtually all were either scrapped or returned to the builders and went into the 2nd hand market. The UP currently does not own any 6000 hp engines (other than the DD40X).
I and others have had issues when programming them. Quite often if you do any programming the sound will cease to operate, forcing a reset to factory default.
