Regularly, on all the O-Gauge Forums, Forumites post topics alluding to the possibility that O-Gauge manufacturers actually peruse the Forums for ideas and suggestions to incorporate into their future production.
Do you honestly believe that the big three (K-Line; Lionel; MTH) actually do this? Are we so pompous to think that manufacturers really listen to us? I’m under the opinion that manufacturers don’t give a hoot about us Forumites. In fact we are a bane to them, sort of a bunch of squeaking wheels. Always complaining; always bitching.
What manufacturers actually do is surreptitiously use the Forums as a way to get their message out to the masses. Take for instance K-Line. From late summer into fall, K-Line’s rep was posting information about their Fall Fair Days. And now we’ll be seeing threads about their upcoming February Fair Days. But has anyone from K-Line been responding to threads that complain about K-Line’s couplers or other valid criticisms?
Same goes for MTH. Topics posted by MTH insiders always inform us when “this” or “that” engine or loco will be released. But we never hear from them on the Forums when a collector/operator posts a valid complaint about their products. One would think that if Manufacturers visited the Forums on a regular basis that they would be ready to offer assistance on the Forums to any valid complaint or concern.
I would like to believe that manufacturers spend enough on research and product development to know where their market is. However, If this is true, then their participation on the various Forums only reinforces my opinion that we are a small portion of that market.
BillFromWayne www.modeltrainjournal.com
I have had K-Line in the past respond to my postings by E-Mail on some of my comments / suggestions on the AOL board. Saying that, the AOL board pretty much has self destructed, I doubt that any manufacture vists that site anymore.
The model makers do monitor the sites but IMO, only will heed suggestions in their own interest, i.e. $$$.
Interestingly in another hobby, Apple Computers, Apple did take this young man’s posts serious. Serious enought to sue him over divulging trade secrets.
When I was in corporate America I was always interested in what customers had to say. However, I know the pace of improvements in the corporate environment seemed glacially slow to our customers. Perhaps that is the way the forums work. They probably respond so slowly to coments that it appears they do not listen at all! However a look at the great direction of the new Lionel catalog shows they are listening to someone!
I’ve been told that they all read the forums, but Andy Edleman of MTH is the only one I know of that will personally respond to a question or complaint, either by e-mail or sometimes on the forum itself. The latest example is the thread on the OGR forum about an MTH car with a misspelled word. Andy got on and explained the reason for the error and took full responsibility for it. The usual whiners were making more of an issue about it than was necesssary but Andy’s response was detailed and professional. In addition, he apologized for the error. Still, the same old whiners continued to carp and find fault with his response. Andy is the only one I know of that will subject himself to criticism, justified or not. For that, I hold him in high regard.
I may be wrong but I would think that if they were really interested in what we think they would post a topic asking what we think. I am sure they would get a lot of feed back if they did.
I don’t really see why they shouldn’t take the forum comments as seriously as those made at York. Of course they are always going to do what they want regardless of what we say. If they think something we say will make them money, it may even get done.
If any of you followed the HO board on MTH introducing HO command control locos and read all the flack that came out of it you will know that they know about us anyway.
Andy announced the new product on that fourm and the rest of it is history.
The major manufacturers, such as Lionel, MTH, K-Line all monitor the various forums, including the AOL discussion boards, in one way or another. Whether they pay any attention to what is said is, I’m sure, highly variable :).
I really don’t think the “manufacturers” (importers) take these
forums seriously. If they did, then they would make a better
effort to reduce the number of defects in their “products”. The
owners of these forums do seem to pay attention to what is
posted, and even appear to react favorably and courteously
to legitimate comments.
As far as York, goes…The “Lion” seems to think that he is still
“King of the Jungle” and his reps don’t care to communicate
with the “little guy”. They are very aloof and stand-offish. Most
of the other train reps are very nice and are open to suggestions,
comments and questions. I have spoken to K-Line’s people
and they have even taken written notes from those of us who
talk to them. Mike Wolf, himself, takes time out to talk personally
with his customers at York. Same with Weaver’s folks. Mr. Walter
Matuch (sp?) of “BEEP” fame constantly is engaged in wonderful
conversations with those at his booth at York! That’s how he
gets his ideas for new road names and paint jobs for his “Little
Engines That Can! (and DO!)”.
Seems to me DougB hit the nail on the head. I know of the thread he is talking about, and to me the whole thing, from the original poster on, was silly.
Once Andy Edleman addressed the poster’s problem as MTH’s mistake and agreed to have his money refunded through the dealer, all gripes should have stopped. Did it? No!!! A lot of the air-heads continued to blast MTH.
So, I don’t blame the Mfgrs. for not signing on too often…in a lot of instances they get treated badly by the forum members.
What a great observation! I came away with a similar observation when I visited Lionel’s booth at the International Toy Fair at the Javits Center in NY some years ago. It was like I was bowing to kiss the Pope’s ring. They only friendly guy in the bunch was Lenny Dean.
I think you are painting with too broad a brush. While I have met a couple of jaded, arrogant Lionel staffers, I have to say that the folks I’ve spent most time with over the years, Bob Grubba, Bob Ryder, Ken Silvestri, and *** Maddox (admittedly not recently :), were nothing if not cordial and interested in hearing from customers about anything and everything. While it is true that in the past Lionel has had a justified reputation for acting like royalty I think those days are done, and historical reality has changed attitudes for the better. Owners like Neil Young and Richard Kughn have been no less accessible when they’ve been at York than Maury Klein, Scott Mann, and others, particularly considering their “star quality.” When’s the last time Mike Wolf or Maury Klein posted on an internet forum or held a public conference? Bob Grubba and *** Maddox posted on the AOL Forum in the 1990s, as did surrogate representative Clyde Coil :). Jerry Calabrese’s first public act was to hold an internet conference. Not exactly the acts of arrogant men, IMO.
Neil,
I thought you were Lionel’s surrogate representative, just like Tony Lash is for MTH.
You can’t blame the manufacturers for not wanting to post on the OGR forum. In the last couple of years, it’s become nothing but a clique for nitpickers, whiners, and know-it-alls. It’s no wonder they’ve lost a lot of the regular folks. I think they just got fed up.
I have no informal or formal relationship with Lionel. Just a customer. And a consumer interested in the health of the hobby and industry, fair business practices and honorable behavior in a typically competitive business climate. I like most of what Lionel does, product-wise. Then again, I like what almost all the manufacturers make, product-wise. What these companies get up to, business practice-wise, is an entirely different story :).