I went to Green Bay and stoped to watch the local yard hump cars. It was a lot of fun to watch. If anyone is in Green Bay stop and watch!
Ed, without taking away from the great job that you and your crew can do, I have to put in a plug for our hump. We aren’t automated at all, and a five-man operation (an RCO/pinpuller, hump conductor, and three car retarder operators) could switch out that 120-car train in an hour, no sweat. Yes, we can make spur-of-the-moment decisions on track changes–and often do.
We lock out bowl tracks when the pulldown crews need to couple and pull them. We’re not humping on top of them, but they do have to look out for movement on adjacent tracks (that’s part of the “alert and attentive” rule that comes very early on in GCOR).
And where’s the hump yard in Green Bay?
Plug away!
When the folks at Englewood Hump have their goove on, thay can clear East Holding Yard in a single shift!
What I was trying to get across is each style of switching has it pros and cons, and each fills a paticular niche in how cars get to where they need to go.
If you are building road trains that are going to be re-classified later, then hump them suckers!
If, on the other hand, you are building several small trains, around 100 cars or less, for several industry jobs, then flat switching is the way to go…
Ed
I’ve lived in Green Bay for over 10 years - I have yet to see a hump yard…???
n stephenson hit the nail on the head. we flat switch with remotes, depending on the cuts it can be real slow. an engineer is much faster. we also pull and spot an adjacent refiery with remotes. spotting is a little harder with the remote, but worse is the lead comming out ofthe refinery to the yard has an uphill grade, and you don’t get a steady surge of power, the computer rises and falls to keep the speed in a certain range. God help us if there is ice, snow or wet rail…stalling out isn’t unheard of…those can be some long days…
How do they uncouple cars on a European hump with those “chain” connections? Its really simple with the North American knuckle coupler, since it can be done with a lever without going between the cars.
Dave H.
Why ask such a silly question[?][?][?]
[quote]
Originally posted by railfan619
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They have a special tool for this, on a long arm to reach in and pull the chain off while the slack is in shoving up the hump ramp. A yardman also has to loosen all the couplers by unscrewing the chain while the train is at a stand still before going over the hump.
But it’s the recoupling that is the real trick, the cars don’t couple automaticaly.
Some unit freight trains use different coupler types like the US style knuckle coupler or even the Russian style semi automatic coupler. So not all cars can even be humped, their equipement isn’t as standard as North America.
As far as I know there are no more hump yards in England and in some of the smaller European countries like Denmark.
Gotcha loud and clear now, Ed–you’re absolutely right.
Go to North Platte NE on your trip! [:p][:)]
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Originally posted by Green Bay Paddlers
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You can also try the NSRR in Bellevue OH. There are also hump yards in & near Chicago. [:o)][:p]
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Originally posted by Green Bay Paddlers
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I grew up in Phoenix AZ,
the yard there was flat but they did what the tower opperator call car kicking. That was where the cars would be started by the engine and turned lose to coast to the right spot/track. Some times the cars would be sorted to diffrent tracks on the fly, as the engineer could get them to release at diffrent speeds. It seemed allmost as efficent as a hump yard.
Gunns
Kevin,
That’s what we mean when we refer to flat yard switching…we bleed the air out of the brakes, grab a cut of cars, and start kicking.
For blocking, or classifying small trains, it’s the way to go.
And, after 9 years of it, I still find it a lot of fun.
With a crew that has worked together for a while, and knows each others moves, you can build several local trains at once.
Pounding rocks and pulling pins is disappearing on the class 1s, though, as the need for the smaller, local trains is going away in favor of the unit/shuttle train, and the huge OTR trains.
You will find flat switching being done more on the smaller, regional and local railroads, where a hump set up is too expensive.
Ed
Thanks to Carl and Ed for the real world view on how this works.
Not to say it is easy, but classification of loose cars over a hump is pretty straight forward. If there are, for example, 25 tracks in the bowl below the hump, cars can be sorted for 24 separate destinations, with one track left for the resorts maybe going on the locals out of the yard or over to the RIP track or other odd spots.
It seems to me that efficient flat switching probably requires more thinking on the go to work out the logical steps to make the least moves to get from the starting string of cars to the line up of cars at the end of the job.
A hump yard can be very efficient for sorting a long train of cars to many different destinations, but it won’t work well for building up a block of cars in a specific sequence. That is where flat switching can be much more efficient.
Jay
Actually, there are ways to sort things using a humpm too–I’m sure Ed could explain how you’d do it in flat switching, but you can use a given number of tracks in the yard (say, four), and switch the cars once, pull them out from all of the tracks in order, switch them again, and voila! 16 classifications, all in order! Takes a little planning, but it can be done. Needless to say, that isn’t done here!
Carl
I should have said “it MIGHT not work as well…”.
By the way, how many tracks does proviso have in the bowl? It has been about half a lifetime since I have had a look, going back to the days when there were many more tracks than I think you have now.
By the way, one day I will take your invitation to drop by, assuming a visit by outsiders is still possible.
Jay
Can’t answer for Carl, but I have 16 tracks to switch into, and 14 to swing over to and spot for ground air.
I build different trains than Carl does; it’s rare anyone outside of the Houston Ship Channel area ever sees what I do.
In essence, I take inbound trains from the Class 1 members (Carl) of our association, and break them into smaller, local trains for our crews to take out and spot in industries.
Because I have so much flexibility, I can line up spot cars in order without too much trouble.
Most industries require certain cars to be placed, or spotted, in a certain order, or a specific location in the plant…
How you place them in the train can make the difference between the local getting a good quit, or hogging out.
When I get it all switched out, I double them up, swing them over to the outbound industry tracks, and spot them for ground air.
This way, all the local crew has to do is come against the train, cut in the air, get a air test and go to work.
Because they have a train sheet that shows how their train is put together, they can make a plan on how to work their particular industries, in what order and what time.
What helps a lot is most of the lead jobs are made up of crews who worked those same jobs, so we know how the plants and industries need their cars, and how the local crew will have to work them.
I am sure Carl can tell you how POed a crew can get if you line it up wrong!
My counterpart on the other side of the yard takes the inbounds from those same industries apart, and builds trains that end up going to…Carl, for one!
Because he doesn’t have to worry about anything other than what yard they will be left at, all he has to do is block them out to which Class 1 gets them, and what order the train will pass through those yards.
He throws all the UP in one, BNSF in another, TexMex and KCS in a third.
If he is o
To all the yard crews everywhere:
I’ve always been fascinated by watching you at work, whether it’s a hump crew pushing over the hump, the pulldown job which empties the bowl and arranges everything for the road crew or a flat switch crew getting the industrial job in the right order. It’s a shame that it doesn’t translate well in still photography, especially when kicking cars or executing a drop without putting anything on the ground[tup]
Paul
Executing a drop?
No no no nooooo…we don’t drop cars anymore…[;)]
It says so right in the GCOR…
Ed
Rrriiiight!