Do you think this will work?

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Lets try this again. I am adding a new section to old bench. Olny the A line will go on to the bench but will split and then become the C-line and A line.

This is the blue print of the bench.

Centers will be apx 15" and Open Grid and bulit in 4 sections. 2 will be 3’ X 4 and the other 2 X 4’. I will use plaster for the big hill / moutain.

A line enters from the bottom left side, it will be a 26" radius. Then it splits to the C- line. A line is the one with no arrows, turns to the right to clear a lake then goes the lenght of the boad. Hangs a right on a 28" raduis then heads into the moutain by a tunnel. Heads back out on to the old bench.

C line has the arrows, it as well dips to the right as it starts up the grade. Goes around the board with a 28 radius at the long end. By then I hope to clear the A-line as it heads in the moutain. Might need a small dip in the A-Line. As it goes around the bottom turn is 26" radius then heads over the lake on a tressel. Back on to the hill then a tressel again on the big end and over the A line. Heads back toward the main boad again and hangs a left on a 24 raduis turn.

Back over the lake again on another tressel on to the big end and a 22" radius turn then it wil get to the C-line loop. Main C-line will either be 18" to 20" turns depending what I can fit in. There will be a big hill on the big end with a tunnel for the C-Line loop. Caol mine will be aginst the moutain like I have seen on this site so many times.

Bow on the right side will be the miner camp and station. Mine it self will be in the revise loop by where the train comes out of the tunnel Center of the C- Line loop will be a small town from the late 50’s to 60’s.

I am DC power and engines will be

2

CK, if you are planning to cover this with ply (4’ x 8’) I would make the joint between the left and right sections at 48" vs. 36".

Regards,

3

Unless you have some need for small sections that you didn’t mention, I see no reason to have four small tables. I would build it as a 5x8 table with cross pieces on 16" centers. That way you have only 4 legs and much simpler construction, also less wood is required.

Also your lengths are not correct. For a 5’ width you have a C piece at 20", B at 32", that with 4 thicknesses of A pieces at 3/4" each, equals 55", whereas 5’ equals 60". Even if you use 2x4’s (not recommended) for the A pieces you still only get to 58".
Enjoy
Paul

4

Reason for the small sections is so far I have read it a better way of buliding a bench. Plus I will be doing most of the work at work during my free time. That way it will fit in the hatch back. But I would be open to one bigger section.

As far as my lengths, I am pretty sure they are right.

A (2") + B (32") + A (2") + A (2") + C (20") + A (2") = 60" = 5 foot

Why are 2 X 4 a bad idea for the center sections? One I have will be power plained so they are straight.

Any other thoughts?

Cuda Ken

5

Tom there will be a little plywood but small sections. It is a open grid desigen, that means from under the bench I will be able to inside the moutain to do work for wiring and re railing if there is a problem.

Be sides a 48" wide section of plywood will not fit in my hatch back. 43" is the max that will fit.

Cuda Ken

6

Ken,

I think you’re forgetting that 2x4’s aren’t 2 inches thick. They will measure out at 1.5", bringing the total for your formula back to 58 inches. A (1.5")+B(32")+A(1.5")+A(1.5")+C(20")+A(1.5") = 58".

Don Z.

7

Don, Ken from K-10 trains pointed that fact out to me today. One problen that no one said anything about is where the A-line goes under the C line on it first loop on the right side. It would be only 2" so either I dump the A line tunnel or the A line goes down a inch. Back up would only be a 1.6% grade so it is do able.

I all so missed factort the grade and height. Grade is only 1.8 and Max height is 12" to the C-line loop.

Cuda Ken bang on wood again.

8

I won’t say they are a bad idea, just that I think 1x4’s are better. 2x4’s are heavier and because they are thicker they require longer screws for connecting your cross pieces. OTOH if they’re free than I would use them - well actually I would cut them in half to make 2 1x4’s but you might not have the equipment to do that.

Enjoy
Paul

9

Ken

Have you looked at L-girder benchwork?? It is a lot lighter and goes up much quicker. The only prefab needed is making the L-girders - typically a 1x4 with a 1x2 screwed and glued on top. Everything else just needs to be precut and put together with drywall screws. That way, you will be able to stuff a lot of material in that hatchback!

Your joists (cross pieces) can be 5’ long and if an 8’ girder (lengthwise support) will not fit the car, make 2 @ 4 ft and splice them together. Legs are 2x2 with 1x2 braces. Roadbed is supported on 1x2 risers, and flat areas can be smaller pieces of plywood cut to fit supported on risers.

Get a copy of “How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork”. It’s really easy, and gives you a lot of clear working space underneath for wiring, etc.

10

What is a L-girder benchwork bench. I have heard the term but no clue to what it means.

Cuda Ken

11

The basic L-girder is made by screwing and gluing a 1x2 to the top of a 1x4, this makes a strong structural shape. 2 L-girders mounted to the legs, and 1x4 joists are attched to the girders to support track and scenery. You get a strong, lightweight structure that uses much less material than the grid benchwork you have drawn above. This system gives a lot of flexability to model hills and valleys, and the trackwork going over or through them.

For what you have drawn, I would estimate the following materials for the basic free standing table:

  • 2 L-girders - 2ea 1x6, 8’ long, rip the 1x2s from this
  • 4 2x2 legs - 1ea 2x4, 8’ long, rip 2x2s from this, and cut 4’ long = 4 legs
  • 6 1x4 joists - 3ea 1x4, 10’ long, cut in half for 5’ long
  • 8 1x2 leg braces, rip from 1x4, these are cut to fit, call them 4’ long - 2 1x4, 8’ long
  • How does this compare to the material takeoff for what you have drawn??? [yeah]

The details are in “How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork” [http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/12175.html ](http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/12175.html This). This is a figure from the 1st edition of the book:

It is difficult to describe in words, but not difficult to build using the book as a guide. Most model railroaders use some form of this type of benchwork. Check your hobby shop to see if they have a copy you can look at, then buy it!

12

I would also agree on an alternate method of construction… Building smaller sections, especially with 2x4 is a hassel and will be a bear to align the plywood tops, not to mention all the additional legs needed for support.

Whatever material you decide on should be hand picked and checked for straight and as clean a grain as possible. Power planing crooked or warped pieces will give you varying widths and thicknesses of your

13

I don’t have a problem with the benchwork, other than the math (1.5 inch versus 2 inch) mentioned earlier. Perfect vertical alignment can be had by screwing a block into the existing table, then screwing through that block into the new section, then screwing the two sections together.

I’m having a problem being sure I’m reading the trackplan correctly. There’s a couple of possibilities, both involving an apparant crossover at the upper left and upper right on the C line. It would help to have the plan highlighted in color, one color for the lowest level, one color for each additional level, and a different color for that part of the track on a grade.

It appears that there is an extra oval in there, unconnected to any other track. On the other hand it may be tied in, and without knowing, it’s hard to tell if the grade is going to work or not. One thing to be aware of going in…curved track sections, where two or more tracks run close together on different levels are difficult to support, as you run out of clearance and angle to get fasteners into the vertical supports becaue the other track is in the way.

Another possible issue…Athearn F7’s require 18" minimum radius or they will derail. In fact, you may have to file the grab irons where they obstruct the truck from turning to get reliable 18" operation. Therefore, assuming the innermost curves are 18" radius, they take up three feet of your five foot width. Actually a little more, the outer rail dimension will be 38 inch diameter, and then there is clearance space between tracks to think about. 36 inches equals three feet, subtracted from a five foot table leaves two feet, divided by two sides of the layout leaves one foot (actually a little less) outside of the innermost curves.

In that space, you have four tracks. It doesn’t really matter if they are going to be on the same or different levels, that is an awful lot of tracks in a limited area. Your’s not going to have fingerspace for minor re-rails between those

14

This is rough, but it WILL work. I left off the “mystery oval” because I didn’t really understand it. If it is unconnected, it doesn’t have to show on the plan, doing so would just complicate the drawing unnecessarily.

To save time and avoid difficult drawing issues, I mixed radiuses, but your chosen radiuses are close and will, with full scale layout, work ok. The large radius section doesn’t cross turnouts (not the curved part anyway), so I used #4 turnouts. To get full benefit of the larger curves, you will have to use #6 turnouts on the existing layout, I drew #4’s, it will change things just a bit to use #6s, but no big deal. Otherwise, anything that diverges over the number 4s will soon have to traverse 18 inch curves, so the limiting factors match.

Ping me if you have questions, hope this helps.

15

After months, maybe even years of trepidation, I got Linn Westcott’s book (How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork) and decided to give L-girder a try. All I can say is get the book, and do it. It has the instructions, the pictures, diagrams, and info you need, and it works. The instructions for freestanding and wall mounted benchwork both work well, I made two wall mounted sections that are suprisingly sturdy. He has a particularly useful table of allowed spans and overhangs of different girders, so you can build sturdy enough without going overboard. I also found that you can use wood that you would not be able to use for a box frame, and the constuction of the girder tends to straighten things out. The L-girders are light, and much easier to handle than larger lumber, and with the girders and joists you can have a lot of flexibility in scenery and roadbed.

16

Well I have not cut wood yet. I going to take the drawing that was posted to K-10 trains and see what Ken thinks of it. If I where to go that way it will still be based on 2 X 4 or should I say 1.5 X 3.5’s. Reason is I have a lot of it and picked up most for free, free is good.

Jeffers, first thank you for your long and detailed answer. Yes the track plain is hard to read. If I use I will try to make it a little clearer and repost. It is one idea but still open to othere, nothing in stone yet.

On the BL-2’s and F-7’s, they will take the 18 turn with no problems, there is still a 18" turn on my bench. In fact my E-6’s have no problems with them eithere.

I may to go up as high, pointing out there would be little room to rerail the train is something I did not think of. Ken at K-10 all so thought it looked a little busy. His idea was to hide about 1/3 rd of the track going up the moutain in the moutain.

On the how wide the new section is, I know the back pain my self. New section will be free standing on 3 sides so working on it should not be a problem. Reason I went with a 5 foot wide section that only 2.5 feet a side. So working on it should not be a problem.

I just used a turn in the drawing going onto the bench, there will be a turn out so the moutain can be by passed. Might see if there is away to make the lower A line loop back into it self as well. A line is the bottom line that does not go up hill. My current A-line is about 63 feet now, B-line is around 75 feet.

On the top of the moutain, there will be sidings to park cars. with luck maybe a passing line as well.

But first thing first. Need a bench to bulid on and will run this by Ken and see what he thinks of the driffrent bench idea.

Thanks again for a well thought out answer. If you get bored feel free to post a track plain as well.

&n

17

OK, I see you beat me to it. You posted your idea while I was posting.

Looks good and like the hidden stagging. I all ready have to many cars, or should I say need more room to park the stock.

Cuda Ken

18

If this helps, I built this last weekend. It’s not the prettiest, but it illustrates the point.

click for a larger pic.

19

Ken,

There was some question in my mind exactly how the existing layout feeds into the new part, I took a guess and went from there. The concept pr using some space for staging is valid, but the details depend on what you already have.

Something I noticed later on…see where the red arrow is? Look at the red track (grade) just above it in the drawing. Look also at the blue track (upper level) it feeds into at the red arrow.

The closer that is to the right edge of the new benchwork, the more room all the inner loops have. That is a critical limiting factor, and it is taking up some valuable real estate. Whatever you can do to move it towards the edge of the new bench will pay off in larger radiuses and easier pulling on all the rest of the inside loops.

Our layout is only four feet wide, and we have access to both sides. Even so, the reach to center, or a little past center, really does a number on my back. Two things may lessen the effect for you.

One, our benchwork is only 30 inches off the floor. I knew it was low when I built it, but my seven year old daughter wanted to be able to see over the edge, so I did it anyway.

Two, I fell on a jobsite about ten years ago, broke three vertebra, and caused some nerve damage in my lower back. Though I refuse to be “one of those guys” who’s “bad back” seems to interfere any time there’s work to do, it still does take some of the fun out of bending over and some other things, like picking up my kids.

Still, no matter how you build your benchwork, it is worth the time to mark out where the strongpoints are so you can safely lean on them. It may save you many trips around to the far side when the reach is right at your limits.

If you expand the pic I posted, then right click on it, you can open it in any image browser and draw right over the top of it, then post it back here to fine tune what you are planning to do. If I can, I’ll then fix up the trackplan I posted and you can use it however you need to. I

20

Little Up Date.

Went to K-10 Train and showed him the L-gride plain. Yes less lumber but not as strong or easy to bulid as what I posted first. So the open grid will be the way the bench will be made.

Jeff, over all he like your idean, but the draw back that Ken and a local club member say was the stagging yard would hurt when there was a derail (after all it is me, a newbe) because I could not get to the staging yard from under the bench work. Following your idea there will be either 1 or 2 staging yards with only 2 turn outs each. With a APX 6’ foot X 4 that is still around 24 feet and that would hold 50% of what I have now. Plus there is still room for another 5’ X 19’ foot section.

Time to play with the new toys, doubled headed GS-4’s! I wil let you know what happens Wednesday as far as wood cutting.

Thanks for all your folks help and Jeff. Pretty great idea Jeff.

Cuda Ken