I’ve encountered two different “takes” on the color scheme of Santa Fe’s Blue Goose 4-6-4, and I don’t think they can be passed off merely as different lighting (dramatic color enrichment photographic alteration, maybe, but I don’t think lighting would do this).
The first, and most common, variant is the “sand blue,” with a more washed-out bottom layer:
The second is the “true blue” variant, with something closing in on a royal blue bottom, with black wheels, running gear, valves, etc:
Ive encountered a number of different models across all scales that are either one or the other, so there definitely appear to be two schools of thought on this locomotive. Does anyone know which scheme is more accurate? Were they both worn at different times, or is one just massively wrong?
(Note, this is not a model railroading question. I was doing an images search for inspiration on a project, and the models were just a good way to clearly demonstrate the discrepancy).
In the book “Santa Fe 1940-1971 In Color Volume 1: Chicago-Kansas City” there are two color photos on Pages 46 and 47, as well as a duplicate of the photo on Page 46 on the dust jacket.
The book is by Lloyd E. Stagner, who is one of, if not the only, definitive experts on Santa Fe steam power.
Unfortunately the 3/4 “wedge” photos do not show the tender side colors definitively, but there is a very good shot of the stainless steel Santa Fe logo with very distinctive darker blue sections in each quarter of the logo.
I may be wrong as color is in the eye of the beholder, but it appears that the correct dark blue color is the one in the top photo of your two photos.
I often wondered why the Sante Fe did not paint the whole locomotive in that color. I think it would have looked very good with the darker blue above the stainless steel band also.
Regardless, that is one opinion as to which dark blue might be the correct one.
This is one photo that I have found that is broadside and shows the darker blue on the lower panels and wheels.
I don’t know, by the time that broadside shot was taken the locomotive was such a mess I don’t think the photo’s to be trusted. In fact depending on lighting, camera, and film sometimes a period color photo’s not to be trusted 100% but it helps with a good guess. The only way to tell for certain is to see the designer’s color choices on a design studio artists rendition
Personally, I like the Hallmark Model version, but that’s just me.
Actually look again, it’s the Tenshodo model with black wheels.
But getting back to the color photo everything below the engine’s centerline is so filthy I wouldn’t want to guess what color it is.
From personal experience trying to research a steam locomotive color in the pre-color photography era I can tell you sometime the color references are so vauge and contradictory sometimes you just have to take a SWAG and go with it. I’m not at all surprised now that model makers colors don’t jibe with each other.
My bad - the lower model colors remind me of the small Hallmark Christmas Tree ornaments. From the photo you can tell the wheels are painted blue no matter how dirty - not black.
Santa Fe was going to have a 3765-class 4-8-4 delivered with the same shrouds but mercifully scrapped that order.
The only reason ATSF didn’t put the streamlining on the class leader was that it weighed something like 17,000lb which put the engine into a different weight class. If you look carefully at the tender you can see the ‘missing’ rows of rivets where the stainless band was to go.
Personally, I think the 3765 class was appreciably faster than a 3460 in actual service, perhaps 10mph or more, so it made just as much sense to ‘celebrate speed’ by shrouding it. And not as fat and dowdy, either.
All the running gear was apparently that medium blue. I think it was delivered with some of it in black, Baldwin perhaps thinking it would be easier to maintain an oil-fired engine painted that way, but relatively quickly was painted blue. I don’t know whether ATSF regularly painted over the ‘dirty bits’ the same way they sprayed aluminum around on the diesels and passenger trucks…
MTH did a good job with their versions of 611, but Lionel always seems to have a problem with N&W’s “Tuscan Red.” Jeez, I’ve seen one Lionel N&W passenger car that was darn near purple! It’s on display at the River City 3-Railers club here in Richmond. Weird looking!
Early in the last video, they show a colour photo with the drivers and running gear distinctly turquoise, or something much closer to turquoise than the running board fascia directly above it.
‘Turquoise’ is a well-recognized color on ATSF: they made the ‘Turquoise Room’ one of the most famed amenities in passenger railroading.
The problem is that the otherwise-amazing person who did these videos says he tinkered, sometimes aggressively, with the coloration.
I don’t know if the running gear below the skirting was the shade of darker blue shown, but it would make sense. Presumably the part of the tender trucks that might be seen would be the same color?
Relying on color prints, slides or movies from long ago is difficult because the dyes are unstable and tend to fade and become more orangish. Better are good, official paint chips or formulas, if available. Afficionados of WW2 armor and aircraft argue these points interminably!
