Does DCC lead to reduced switching operations?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I was asked to comment on an interesting correlation by a friend today. It appeared to him that interest in magnetic uncoupling had taken a nosedive as DCC has increased in popularity. I had never thought about the correlation between those two trends. Both trends appear to me to be valid representations of what is happening in our hobby. The base assumption that I am working under is that interest in magnetic uncoupling correlates very strongly with an interest in switching operations.

In thinking about why there might be correlation between the two trends, I came up with the following conclusions regarding DCC:

  • DCC has become (for some) the final link in recreating toy train magic in the scale world. Together with truly RTR locomotives, track with built-in roadbed and simplified flex and prefab turnouts, and already-built and painted structures, a nice looking (and performing) layout can be built without much of a learning curve or traditional modeler’s skills. These layouts are far more conducive to train running than way freight or yard switching.
  • The availability of “enhancements” like sound, smoke, and various light configurations in DCC promotes train running rather than switching.
  • A good percentage of DCC users take advantage of DCC’s capabilities to run more than one train from a given throttle simultaneously. While juggling multiple trains on multiple routes is certainly more feasible with DCC (as many of you have stated), it means an engagement in running trains rather than performing switching moves.
  • Digitrax is supposedly the biggest seller of DCC systems. Their Zephyr (just refreshed) is their best selling system. That the form factor in the as-sold unit is for a central station tells me that switching is not the primary operational objective of Zephyr buyers. Of course, MRC DC power packs are not any better suited for switching ops out of the box.

For the uncoupling tr

2

Your analysis doesn’t match the reality of the couple of dozen operating layouts in this area. Nearly all of the layouts are DCC, most incorporate lots of switching, and nearly all are using picks of some sort for uncoupling.

What has changed is that most folks now build switching areas within easy arm’s reach of walkaround aisles – greatly reducing the need for magnetic uncoupling (DC or DCC). I think that’s a major contributor to any decline in magnetic remote uncoupling – at least around here.

The combination of wireless DCC walkaround control and keeping everything within reach makes switching (and uncoupling with picks) a pleasure.

Byron

3

Fred, my hand is up for:

  1. Not doing much uncoupling at all;

  2. For routing my manual throws to the front fascia ('cuz it’s a stepping stool lift otherwise for many of them out on the main); and

  3. For using the thinner bamboo kabob skewers when I do uncouple. Most of my uncoupling, say 70%, is to get the engines off the head end and over to servicing. I tend to leave consists, particularly the passenger ones, alone. I routinely break up mixed and mixed freights, but I wouldn’t describe what follows as switching…more like switching up.

I purchased two magnetic uncouplers for this layout, but darned if I didn’t pause mid-ballast spread shake when I was doing the yard, tracks already down and proven, and realized I had forgotten them. Oops.

But I can’t say I miss 'em. [^o)]

I don’t see why sound and gizmos have contributed more to train rail fanning instead of operations/switching. It would only be, to my way of thinking, if a whole bunch of new people have taken up the hobby due to DCC’s capabilities especially, and have not had mentorship about the more challenging and (cough) interesting side of the hobby. They just don’t know about it. Or is that what you mean?

I can see your third DCC point. It makes sense. It is just busier running trains in DCC because you can run more than one, but you still need to line the routes and so on.

Same for your fourth point…highly plausible.

Your thoughts, my choices.

Crandell

4

Fred W,

I am not sure, whether I would follow down your road. I am inclined to say “au contraire”, as DCC puts you in the engineer´s seat, making switching operation even more enjoyable. I agree to your statement using picks or bamboo skewers for uncoupling, instead of magnets placed in the track, but I don´t see that linked to the use of DCC, more to the recent changes in layout design, having most of the track within reach. Placing the magnets has always been some kind of a gamble for me, usually I ended up placing too few magnets and some at the wrong location [:$]

5

To answer the question simply, I say “No”.

I think you are seeing causation where there is none. I think DCC use is expanding, and I think switching ops are expanding as well. Just take a peek at the layout building forum and the design questions. In THIS forum there does seem to be a rise in “just running”, but just because both are increasing doesn’t imply correlation.

I have time to rebut one point -that people who uncouple with skewers because it’s realistic should also hand-throw all switches because that is realistic. Pick uncoupling doesn’t have the potential to damage scenery (or require room on yard tracks for a the giant human hands) that hand-throwing switches does.

6

Fred, I’ll be one of the few to agree thewre is a grain of truth to this. What I see is such: DCC/SOund has elevated the railfan niche. Why? Because the steamers that look good now have smoke, and accurate or not, there’s something there that chould be and for most is not. Also, more videos are bing done now because the train itself provides the sound: you don’t have to be a dubbing wizard to produce a good video, or have a massive library of audio clips.

Something else to keep in mind: DCC is booming because the technology world as a whole is booming. I mean in practicality, not economically, so don’t try to go by those numbers as I don’t know what they say. Is there an increase in railfanners because there’s an increase in cameras that an actually do a beautiful picture?

Now, has that pulled more away froms witching? maybe, maybe not. It is harder to railfan switching, as that Great Hand of God keeps getting in the way and mst be editted around. So there’s always the possibility that we see more Railfan than Switch because we’re SUPPOSED to see more railfan. That said, one fun point to try is to do accurate use of sound while switching. Lay off the horn, but there’s a lot of science to ringing that bell. Try listening to a yard, it’s pretty cool.

I’d also like to observe, DCC allows more trains, yes. And more traisn requires more attention, yes, so if rubning two trains, then you likely don;t have the ability to switch and track the other train. But that’s not so much the DCC at fault as it is simple user preference. And DC has been oding yards separate from the main for a while, too.

Now, this connection to groundthrows vs electronic throws and realism is way off. An industrial area would be ground thrwn, but a RR tower isn’t there so the Dispatcher can shimmy across the tracks and line the switches. No, he does it remotely and offsite. Much like a facia panel. You want accurate, buy yourself a Humpyard throw for the fascia.

Regarding

7

Funny…

I do not see DCC as messing with switching here…I use DCC and I do do a lot of switching here.

8

Whenever the club had its HO layout up and running I preferred to switch the yard instead of fighting the rest of the members for a chance to run on the main line.

The yard on the club layout had Kadee magnetic uncouplers in the yard and the layout was powered by a Digitrax DCC system.

The layout is gone, but the club has a new layout in the works and the new yard will most likely have magnetic uncouplers just like the old one.

I prefer to use the Digitrax UT1 throttle (no longer in production) because I can flick the reverser toggle switch with my thumb as I’m shuttling cars back and forth in the yard.

9

My thoiughts on using a UT4. I don’t even have to worry about direction in the dcc chip either, as I often don’t look. I’ve also gtten to the poitn wher I can hit the sound cues without looking too. The only issue I have, I cannot turn off the track power if I’m the last one out.

10

Fred,

From what I see, your conclusion about a shift in “modeler type” is valid, there has been in the last 10-15 years a strong increase in small scale modelers who are doing more of the “year round Christmas Garden” or “casual rail fan modeling”. Many are “collectors” with a “display” layout. I’m sure they all think I’m crazy when I say “I don’t own a Big Boy or a PRR K4”.

They are driving force in all this RTR product. They buy DCC for sure. They don’t uncouple much.

BUT, did DCC “cause” that or is DCC just one of the elements that helped attract a few more of those types to an ever increasing supply of good “ready to run” products that actually started in the late 80’s? And did DCC actually do that or was it sound, which really requires DCC to be effective?

Of the modelers in our local group, a few fit this catagory, and others are NMRA Master Modeler types and the like, still building more than buying. And while many use DCC, regardless of their modeling style, non have a Digitrax Zephyr - all the DCC guys I know have wireless.

I never was real crazy about magnetic uncoupling because the restriction to magnet locations and the cost/complexity of electromagnets.

Myself personally, once I saw the “walk around”, manual turnout, manual uncoupling, everything close to the layout edge, type of layout in action - I was hooked. BUT, I don’t use DCC - wireless radio DC does this quite well for me.

Here are my layout standards regarding uncoupling and turnouts - freight uncoupling is done with “picks”, passenger uncoupling is done with picks and a few magnets (hard to reach locations because of working diaphragms).

Turnouts that would be manual on the prototype are manual, using simple slide switches as ground throws. This is done because electrical contacts are needed and because they are easily operated with the same screwdriver like pick that is used for uncoupling.

Turnouts that would be tower

11

Mmmm - there might be a correlation there, but not necessarily for the reasons you suggest (that the use of DCC tends to encourage rail fanning rather than switching :slight_smile:

DCC perhaps tends to encourage the train crew view more than the dispatcher view. You are controlling a specific engine or train, not a section of track.

Using tethered throttles and extra plug in points for a control bus along the layout, or wireless throttles, walking along while switching may be more practical than when you are tethered to a controller fixed in one position.

(Sheldon - before you protest - I am not saying that you cannot achieve the same with DC - but it takes quite a bit more know-how and skill to do walk-along plug-in throttles or wireless throttles with DC than with DCC).

A second, mostly unrelated, but probably way more significant trend is not so deep bench work, and a tendency towards less track, more realistic track configurations, allowing better access to tracks and industries.

A third (but very small) trend is the use of sure spots, needing to spot cars fairly precisely, and wanting to simulate the work not only of the engineer, but also of the rest of the train crew - during coupling and uncoupling, brake tests and such things.

Having the operator right there, next to the train, within easy arm’s reach, tends to discourage the installation of under track magnets, since you might as well use a stick for uncoupling. For accessible track, the under track magnets doesn’t give you much you don’t get with a wand or stick.

Smile,
&nb

12

I can’t say that DCC changed my layout design at all.

Im building a large layout with DCC and sound and though I won’t have a classification yard, my local and yard jobs will do switching. I’m going with skewers for uncoupling but I do have a few hard to reach locations were I have been laying the under track electromagnetic jobbies. I don’t have all the track laid or the DCC running but I have been testing with DC and thinking long and hard where the trains will have to be uncoupled to work industries and small yards.

13

I haven’t quoted all the good responses. Some of my propositions were definitely a bit of a stretch, as quite possibly is my friend’s original premise - that the rise of DCC has caused a loss of interest in magnetic uncoupling. Certainly there are plenty of fine switching layouts that use DCC and either one of the uncoupling methods. And there are plenty of DC layouts that do the same.

I agree with one poster who said that DCC has not brought new hordes into the hobby, nor has DCC likely caused mass conversions from switching layouts to continuous run layouts. But as Flashwave states, DCC has probably elevated the railfan layout in acceptance among all model railroaders. DCC does enable (using John Armstrong’s term “spectator” operator) spectators to more easily achieve their goal, and enables the starting model railroader to become operational (usually as a spectator) without having to learn DC wiring and gapping theory.

Which is a little surprising to me because the original goal of command control was to enable easier operation for the “engineer” operator. (John Armstrong once divided model railroaders into 3 categories for the purpose of layout design - spectators, engineers, and dispatchers. Very few of us are totally one a

14

I think that the increased availability of RTR, reliable track, and DCC (making wiring easier) has led to an increase in the number of layouts built. Many of these are the N and HO version of O and S hirail layouts - good looking scenery and continuous running, but not much in operations, switching or otherwise. I also think for a lot of people operations are too much like work, they just want to run the trains and blow the whistle.

Wireless DCC combines easy wiring with easy walkaround which leads to skewer uncoupling. Skewer uncoupling is easier than magnetic - you don’t have to plan and install the uncouplers or do the back and forth thing with delayed uncoupling. So less magnetic uncoupling.

So I think on a percentage basis there is less switching operations. Whether or not the actual numbers are declining - I don’t know.

Enjoy

Paul

15

Paul

Thanks for expressing many of my thoughts much more concisely and eloquently than I. I’m not sure the total number of layouts has grown so much. It might be more that the RTR and DCC trends lead to fewer of them being abandoned in the early stages in frustration.

I’ve been avoiding the recreating hi-rail O and S issue because the practitioners seem to be upset when it gets pointed out.

Fred W

16

I’m with the crowd who says DCC helps uncoupling, not hurt it. During ops sessions at the club you’ll see 15 to 20 people operating. Some running the long freight, dropping off cars at the yards. The yard boys take it from there and do the switching work. Other runs involve locals that stop periodically at sidings to switch.

Having this many run the same time was very difficult if not nearly impossible in the past with DC.

Also using a skewer etc to uncouple is closer to the prototype than magnets. I’m not aware of standard freight automatically uncoupling. I beleive that someone has to actually touch something at the end of the car before it uncouples.

One last thing. Yesterday at our open house My SD70 consist was parked at a siding during a break. They had crossed over a magnet while backing in. WhenI pulled out they became uncoupled. The magnet was left over from when it was a DC layout. The several in that area will be removed in one of the upcoming work sessions.

17

Stein,

Actually I agree but would simply add or expand two points:

DCC almost “requires” that you have the “engineer” view. I am more a “dispacther” person.

And, that while DCC did make it easier, the trend toward narrow benchwork, walk around control, track close to the operator type layouts was well underway long before DCC.

Sheldon

18

The “dispatcher” view has become more interesting as well. During ops sessions block detection allows the dispacher to see what is going on through a computer monitor. It also allows him to control the layout including turnouts with a click of a mouse, and get positive feedback of the posistion. Since the layout is DCC the dispatcher station can be easily moved since only a pair of wires is needed to the layout.

19

For me, no. I can run one locomotive continuously on my mainline while switching with another in my yard or on my servicing tracks simultaneously. Fun stuff! [Y][8D]

Tom

20

I don’t think so but,then everybody isn’t into switching cars either.

IMHO I fully believe DCC enhances switching especially on larger home and club layouts with yard operations and engine terminals.

On the down side I’ll never sign up for a hostler job again on a large DCC home or club layout…After operation I felt like a accountant and was mentally drain…