Hello all. I’m thinking about adding another brass locomotive to my fleet, (I only have one brass engine right now that I bought from a friend a while back) and I was wondering if a quality paint job adds to the price of an HO scale locomotive vs. an unpainted example of the same engine, and if so, how much of an increase would that typically be? I’m just trying to figure out if unpainted would be more affordable to me, and if it would make that much of difference in price. Thanks.
Are you going to paint it youself, or are you going to pay $200 to someone to do it for you?
I would paint it myself.
An expert paint job increases the price significantly.
A not so expert paint job will diminish the value.
If done well, yes it can. If done poorly, painting the model can hurt the value.
My concern is more around if a quality plastic model is released. Seems like the value of a brass engine plummets immediately upon release.
Brass has already dropped a fair bit for this reason.
I won’t buy a brass locomotive but I did buy a set of passenger cars all in brass and well painted.
If you love model trains you owe it to yourself to acquire at least one brass model. The detail is really worth it.
Yes, a quality paint job adds to the value. Generally, and all black locmotive is increased in value by 25% or so by a good paint job. A fancy paint scheme can increase it much more.
It is not enough of an increase to recover to price of a high quality professional paint job, and if you actually run the locomotive, it will need touch-ups and service along the way, so a top-notch paint job is not necessary for a fleet runner.
You can paint it yourself and get it good enough pretty easy. I enjoy painting locomotives.
Have fun!
-Kevin
I don’t believe it’s a yes-or-no situation with brass. Almost nobody wants a plastic model unpainted…do they? But a great many people actually prefer unpainted brass. That is what they’ll pay for. For those who want painted brass, they will pay for that service, and they’ll pay appreciably more for a job well done, an expert job with fine decals added.
So, it depends on the market. Brass is not brass.
I agree with general census, a proffesional paint job increases the value signigicantly. A poor one diminishes it by a tad.
Especially a special paint job such as a streamline paint job (such as SP daylight).
I do wonder how weathering would add/diminish to the value though. I think that’s far more subjective, “good” weathering really depends on the buyer/owner’s taste and preferences.
Charles
There are a number of types of buyers of brass some only want unpainted and others want a great paint job. If you paint it even though you do a great job, you lose customers who want another livery. In general the price of old brass is going down, very little new stuff is coming on the market. I even saw a crtain Crown in very good unpainted go for around $600 the other day, used to go for $1200.
Going by what I see on the BrassTrains Dot Com website, well done weathering also adds a premium to the value of the model.
A well weathered model lists for a higher price, and does sell quickly.
-Kevin
In the past year I’ve purchased 3 brass steam locos, 2 professionally painted and one factory. I found that it is less expensive to buy one already done than buy bare brass and have it done by a professional except perhaps if it is a later run with factory paint.
The factory one is a 2002 Van Hobbies CPR Hudson, the last run they did and it only came in a painted version. The paint is amazing as is the detail right down to the red valves in the cab.
There are some good deals out there if you look and are willing to wait if looking for a specific model.
CN Charlie
I agree. I paint a lot of brass models for friends, and have done a number of them for a now-gone hobby shop. I never had any idea of what professional painters charged, so I didn’t make a lot on the ones done for the hobbyshop, but everything that I painted was well received by their owner…I hope that was because they liked my work, though, and not because my price was so low.
I don’t expect my friends to pay, although if they want details added, or particular colours that I don’t have on-hand, they usually provide them.
All of those friends, however, are very generous, and I often get thoughtful gifts for my work. For me, having them as friends is reward enough.
As for professional paint jobs, one of my friends got a very sweet deal on a large brass locomotive. It was slightly damaged, but had a custom paint job done by a very highly regarded local modeller and custom painter. There was a brass label on the drivers’ coverplate naming the painter.
My friend already had a couple of these locomotives, usually bought at anywhere between $500.00 and $700.00 apiece, unpainted. I had painted them, and he was well-satisfied with the results.
The hobby shop was about to close (for good, unfortunately) so he got the locomotive for $100.00, likely due to the damage. As we drove back to my place I told him that the damage was repairable, and asked if he wanted it painted in-kind, or new paint.
I know that he was impressed with that brass tag, but to be completely honest, it was a weathering job dating from the late '60s/early '70s, with random vertical streaks of a dust-colour airbrushed down the sides of the loco and tender. As I recall, it was all-
If you really want to know the ins and outs contact Zane.
Paint ONLY increases the value if it is a high quality professional paint job. There are painters who “custom paint” brass who do only a half-##s job, and their work does NOT add value to the brass model. This is specifically because most serious brass collectors will look at that custom painted model as one that needs to be stripped to bare brass and repainted.
If the paint is so thick that details start to become obscured, then no–it detracts from the value of the brass model. If the paint finish is uneven, splotchy, or off color–then no, it detracts from the value of the brass model.
Especially with brass diesels, the details are often etched or stamped into the brass sheeting, and the depth of those details is very shallow. It is then easy for an inexperienced painter to get way too much paint film thickness on the model, at which point the details are obscured and the paint has devalued the model. With today’s plastic models, the details may exist in relief from the surface of the model, just as with the prototype diesel locomotive or freight car. Some of those details were not adequately achieved in brass diesels, which often are made from brass sheet stock.
I did once paint an Overland Models diesel. My work devalued that model. I highly recommend that anyone who has an inkling of desire to paint a brass model complete several projects in plastic to a high standard of quality first, before ever attempting to paint a brass model. Also remember that the paint will flow to a greater extent on brass than on plastic.
Respectfully submitted–
John
You’ve given me a lot of food for thought. Thank you everyone.
Only CN Charlie mentioned something worth considering and that’s brass with factory paint. It almost always adds to the value (with a few exceptions) and is generally well done. To be certain, it does tend to limit your choices, as painted brass only became common during later years. But if you’re buying other than in person, factory paint can be a deciding factor that helps add confidence in what you’ll be getting.
The 2 locos I bought not factory painted both came from Brasstrains. The photos they post do give great means to assess the paint. In fact they said one loco was a factory job it was so good, even underneath. You couod tell from the photos.I later found out from a local expert than none of the run was factory painted but I didn’t care, as the quality is so good. They have had a couple of other painted examples but you can tell from the photos they aren’t close to mine.
The other loco I bought was a model I wanted and bought based on the paint in the photos. It didn’t run well but my brass expert put in a can motor and sound. It literally creeps on speed step 1, slower than any other loco I have. It was less expensive to fix the running issues than buy unpainted and have him paint and still have to get a decoder installed.
These are both Samhongsa models of CN from the 1970s,
CN Charlie
It is interesting to note that most more recent brass comes only factory-painted. For Santa Fe steam, it started in the mid-1990s with Hallmark’s Super Crown models of class 3765 and class 3776 4-8-4s where an unpainted version was no longer available (well, technically it started in 1968 with PFM’s “Blue Goose”, but that was clearly an exception). After 2000, nothing new came unpainted anymore (e.g. Division Point’s 885, 900/1600 classes; Glacier Park’s 3460 class; Global Outlet’s 5011 class; TCY’s 1337, 5000 classes).
Of course, there is a reason for this. All the listed “new” brass shows details specific not only to the class as a whole, but to an individual loco (which explains the price). Thus, it is unlikely that someone will buy an unpainted version and just paint it and decal it with the “wrong” number.