I witnessed this happen today on the UP transcon- an easbound mixed manifest passed my location, slowly approaching the distant signal which displayed solid yellow. At the same time, an eastbound stack train blew by him on the other main. The mixed manifest stopped prior to the yellow indication, blocking the grade crossing I was sitting near (a pretty busy one, too) for a good 20 minutes- he didn’t move until it gave him a green indication. I know for a fact that he could’ve easily continued past that signal to the next one at the crossover point, and he wouldn’t have blocked any grade crossings had he done so. Was he just being an a**, or what?
The most likely reason he stopped was that the next signal was located difficult to see until nearly on top of it or it was a hard pull to get going from. Lots of engineers lay back to wait for a clear signal rather than chase approach signals (which often is not fuel efficient).
The engineer does have the discretion to stop whenever he/she feels it is necessary. Blocking a busy crossing was not good judgement unless he could not see the signal from a location clear of the crossing unless this was cab signal territory.
Come to think of it, the next signal is at the crossover next to the sewage treatment plant, and the wind was out of the north today- I guess I can’t blame him for stopping early!
It could also be the dispatchers call (or mistake - didn’t hold the train at the correct hold point). Maybe a three-way meet with two of the trains converging towards an interlocker on the same main…
CC
Some of us engineers do stop at the approach signal to the control point if that is the only place we will fit without being on crossings, as for some of the above that is true also it depends on how heavy my train is.
Rodney
It also depends on how close that next signal is. We a situation in my terminal where the signals are less then 500 yards apart, but due to the curvature of the track, you can’t see one from the other. So it’s often times better to stop at the approach, and wait for a more favorable signal.
We have another area, where these is a steep down grade between the two signals. If you take the approach, there’s a good chance you may not be able to stop at the stop. Again, many engineers will hold at the approach at the top of the grade and wait for a more favorable signal.
Nick
Thought about it some more- in this case there are actually TWO signals beyond where he stopped before he would’ve reached the crossover interlocking. There’s at least a mile between him and the next signal, with the approach to it being very straight and flat with no grade crossings. The second signal, which is right at the crossover, is the one next to the sewage treatment plant, and is a mile beyond that one. So, stopping where he did makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Unless there was another train waiting in the block ending at the crossover (poor crew, phew!), and he either didn’t want to or was instructed not to get too close to that one.
I’m guessing the manifest was probably mostly loads and underpowered or maybe having power problems. He stayed back to let the train going around him, and probably one in front of him, get up Mount Vernon hill, or at least far enough that he could get a bit of a run for the hill without getting train control.
Many times, coal trains will stay back at J street until they have a clear signal. Others will wait down around the 76 detector until the train ahead tells him they are “going by the college” at Mount Vernon.
There are places where trains will stop on flashing yellows, even on a green signal to stay off crossings. If you stop on a clear, you either tell the dispatcher or the train ahead to let you know when things start moving again.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff! I figured you’d be weighing in sooner or later. BTW, here’s a few pictures from Saturday of the locations I’ve been mentioning-
First, a shot of the stack train blowing by the mixed freight from the C St. grade crossing- at this point the mixed was nearly stopped.
Next, a shot of the next signal beyond where he stopped (that’s the 76 detector Jeff mentioned).
Here’s a shot of the stretch of track where the crossover is located- that’s the sewage treatment plant in the background. The crossover is right about where the tail end of the stack train is.
