Perhaps, but it isn’t quite to that stage with a layout.
I get plenty of satisfaction making a scene look realistic and complete to my ability. They haven’t taken that away, yet!
I am probably part of their market, working full time and with children, building locos and wagons would add to my already mammoth task of putting down scenery and finishing the many other jobs on the 10 x 17 layout.
Regards,
Nigel
I used to scratch build back many years ago when I had a difficult time getting kits due to financial constraints. Now I no longer do kits because of severe nerve damage in my hands so I make do with built-ups. I get just as much satisfaction from that as I did with any structure I built.
I thought I saw a rant about that in the late 1960’s------oh well----t’was ever thus
Jeez, Chip, we’ve already had our daily ration of CanO’Worms.
Besides, Joe Collias was ranting about “plastic squeeze bottle” kits nearly 30 years prior to that.
My maternal grandfather died in 1983 at the age of 93. His last car had air conditioning, cruise control, power steering, power brakes, etc. Still, he was always comparing it to the Model T that was his first car and the Model T came out ahead. This despite the fact that the Model T had to be hand-cranked and busted his arm a couple of times, was a soft top with no heater (and he delivered mail in North Dakiota) and was constantly breaking down, blowing a tire or othewise forcing him to “Get Out And Get Under”. http://americanhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_916.html
Old guys have a tendency to view the past through rose colored glasses. Not all of 'em, but enough of 'em to make it a cliche.
Andre
Somewhere in the Laws of Model Railroading it must state:
Thou shalt not build from scratch if a craftsman kits is available.
Thou shalt not build a craftsman kit if a screwdriver plastic kit is available.
Thou shalt not build a plastic kit if a Ready-To-Run is available.
I would modify the above quote to:
“Low cost, easily assembled plastic kits and RTR may have reduced the incentive necessity to build from scratch, thereby diverting enabling many of us from the huge satisfaction of creating models from basic components and raw materials.to build and operate a layout bigger than a 4x8”
Enjoy
Paul
I heard THAT Jeffrey! Stinks, don’t it![banghead] I’ve got boxes of kits and detail parts sitting around and I just get frustrated every time I try to build them.
“Had I but world enough, and time…”
The old classics guys used “world” to mean financial resources, as in “worldly goods.” So, they spoke of both money and time as parallel needs. We tend to think of time or money, hence the debate of kits vs. RTR, or plastic kits vs. scratchbuilt.
I, for one, am glad to have all the choices. All, that is, but time, of which none of us has enough, and none of us can bargain for more.
Although I’m a relative new comer (or rather newly returning) to the hobby I have built a couple of smallish craftsman type kits, some plastic, and some cars that were kits. I have also purchased RTR rolling stock. If I see something that I would like on the layout I don’t tend to search for one over the other I see which one is closer to what I want or need for the layout and go for that.
Dan
“Bis repetita non placent”
This was supposedly the answer of Julius Cesar to a Roman senator, requesting to take revenge for the loss of the battle of Gergovia.
In short - not again a discussion of scratch building vs. kits vs. R-T-R. We should be glad, that we have all options and thus can include all people, with their different levels of skills and abilities, into our hobby.
Yup and Big Julie was knifed fior his trouble. Stand aside and let the games continue for surely the games will continue whether or not you are standing in the field commanding the players to disband and go home. They will ignore you. You know that, I know that, they know that, so why maintain the pretense of stopping the inevitable?
Andre
Yes and the plastic RTR firehouse on your layout looks exactly like the one on mine. One good reason to kitbash as long as there are kits still being made. Hard to kitbash a RTR structure.
Pete
Ok, so 23 years ago they are saying the same thing we are now. 23 years later. Scratchbuilding is not dead now and based on this I don’t see it dead in the near future, or as long as the scratchbuilders are still living and able.
Toy trains have always been big. But Model Railroads, now they didn’t really get big until the kits became readily available. This tells me that though we may not want to abmit it, kits helped build and continue to build Model Railroading to what it is today. So, therefore I don’t believe that kits are killing Model Railroading as much as, dare I say, building (groan) it. The conclusion I draw, based on what I see, is that the numbers of scratchbuilders being small, in the modern day business environment, wage scales, costs etc., and before the great China migration, the demand for model railroading items would be so small that the companies could not manufacture near the items we have today and make it. Model Railroading would be either a total scratchbuild hobby including the locos and cars, or what would be available would be so expensive, what with a low demand and all, it would exclude most all but the wealthy.
The niche of scratchbuilders is still there and I don’t see how they can say the amount of supplies is dwindling. After all, it is scratchbuilding. I don’t believe the amount of scratchbuilders would have been any larger if the kits were not available. In fact, I believe the kits have actually increased the numbers of scratchbuiders by at least getting them into model building then, through association with others, sparked an interest, then love, of scratch building.</
You make an interesting observation - one justification(advantage)for scratchbuilding is to prevent what Pete just described. How many times have I picked up an issue of the MR or other publication and leafed thru the articles only to view many structures, (allthough many are slightly modified or weathered)that I’ve recognized a hundred different times in other articles about other layouts - now, don’t get me wrong…I really like some of the structures -in kit form and pre-assembled - that are available to the Model Railroader - more and better than ever before.
Atlas and Revell, offered some of the most recognizable structure kits of all time, yet they are very user-friendly, in terms of kitbashing or customizing to look ‘different’.
Time and Money ARE considerations for most of us, especially the latter - and so we have become dependent on the model companies to supply us with ‘instant gratification’ models ready to place on the layout.
I think the Laser kits are the greatest thing in terms of structures - that has come along in decades. You still have to ‘craft’ them, painting weathering and assembly- but the parts being pre-cut are so much easier to work with and quicker to assemble. The only disadvantage for many is the cost.
Many of the industrial structures that will be a part of my layout, will be entirely custom scratch-built, mainly becuase of there shear size and due to the level of detail required, including electronics.
The only issue is I hope I live long enough to get it all built and enjoy it.
It comes down to what you like - creating your own - or, out of the box. I like BOTH.
HeritageFleet1
From my own perspective - I love craftsman kits…and I love scratch building. I havent put pressure on myself to have a set “completion” date for my layout if there even is such a thing. If I’m at my workbench putting something together, I’m in my glory, and isnt that what the hobby is all about? Escape the world for a little while and work on building your train world? That’s only my two cents… If you feel good about what you’re doing, and doing it the best you can, and are developing your skills each time you do it…you win.
To a degree, John Page was correct, at the time. The rapid proliferation of “kits”, be they for rolling stock or structures, most certainly did decrease the amount of scratchbuilding going on in the hobby during the 1980’s and thereafter. Just a check of the pages of MR between the 1960’s and 1980’s demonstrates a progressive decline in the number of true scratchbuilding articles that appeared as time passed.
However, at the same time the multitude of kits opened the door to a broad spectrum of kitbashing across the hobby, particularly with regard to structures. Again, the pages of MR reflect this evolution, with more and more articles depicting ideas on modifying common kits into unique new designs for locos, rolling stock and structures. The era probably reached its peak with Art Curren’s many MR contributions, culminating in several separate kitbashing guides. Kitbashing allowed the same creative juices of talented hobbyists to show through in the same manner that scratchbuilding formerly had. Thus, in the long run, the transition proved beneficial overall to the hobby’s traditional strengths.
Today’s RTR, on the other hand, has no such redeeming virtues of bringing out personal creativity in the hobbyist in some form. In fact, it essentially nullifies that potential. Even the Lionel/Flyer toy train hobby traditionally included at least the assembly of simple structure kits. Taken to the eventual extreme, buying everything pre-made represents nothing more than a simple collecting hobby.
CNJ831
I personally love the latest offerings in RTR structures. Here’s one from woodland scenics I picked up recently. I have several of their town structures as well. I’ll have to snap a pic or 2 of them [:)]
HamltonBlue,
You are right, they look good.
I agree with what most of you are saying, that this is a market driven thing. Whether the market came before the offering is a chicken and egg sort of thing i figure.
I cannot see how scratch-building will ever die either. Those of us that model eras other than the 50’s will be busy unless we intend to model open range.
i think we all have selective memories of days gone by. i’m sitting here in my basement looking at over 100 unbuilt kits that probably cost me an average of 10 bucks each since i bought most of them on sale. and yet, i remember when i was a kid and athearn car kits were 2 dollars or less. of course, back then i could afford one or two a week from my paper route money if i didn’t do something stupid like going to a movie or drinking a milkshake.
my biggest beef about building from scratch today is the lack of easy to find materials. the stuff is avvailable if one is willing to search on the internet or call around. i don’t know if the recent interest in ready to repair is why it is becoming more scarce.
look back in some of the older magazines and you will find modelers building things out of coffee cans or popsickle sticks. i guess i could go that route but i don’t have to. kind of like engravng the Lord’s Prayer on the head of a pin. it can be done but why would you want to?
grizlump
Plastic kits are not always easy to build. Try building some of the high quality plastic kits. They are much more challenging than the old Athearn blue box kits. You will have a good looking highly detailed model when it is completed. … (You may, however, become insane after handling some of those fragile little parts while trying not to break them. [:-^] )