I stated I was skeptical of the specific GAO numbers, earlier posted, that represented that captive shippers had increased from 4% to 6%, a 50% increase in small percentages. I originally posted those figures, but I also posted that I was skeptical of them. Which ulterior motive do you wish to attribute to me on which posting?
As you can see if you read the latest post, those GAO numbers, in fact, applied to only shippers paying above the 300% R/VC ratio, which have increased by 50%.
I was, indeed, properly skeptical of the earlier figures as they did not, in fact, apply to all shippers above 180% R/VC, and the quote clearly shows that.
But, thanks in any case for taking the time to point out that my earlier skepticism was properly and credibly grounded, and that this was confirmed upon further information from the GAO which represents a clarification of their earlier report and the earlier posts on this thread.
I got yer carloading stats right here! It really wouldn’t hurt you to look at ALL the slides and maybe even read the text, you know! It isn’t always all happy talk.
Thanks for the correction. I thought it was cool that so many ramps were still in use.
Do most of the “ramps” use a side loader or a gantry stile loader. It looks like the gantry loaders latch at the container locks and cant lift normal trailers, is that assumption correct.
Somehow, the debates get more interesting around here when MichaelSol gets involved.
Honestly, I have done my best to follow this thread. Since 1/3 (or thereabouts) of shippers are “captive” would it not stand to reason that something should be done about it? Do the railroads need to be regulated again? It seems to me, from a very basic standpoint (I do not claim to be an expert, or even knowledgeable about railroad shipping rates, practices, or policies) that the railroads appear to be shooting themselves in the foot, in the “truck vs rail” competition. If they can move trailers more effieciently than OTR truckers, than why not do it? I don’t know, perhaps I am missing the point here.
But, what I would like to know, (with whatever honesty can be put forth) is what are, say MichaelSol’s Strawbridge’s, futurmodal’s or TomDiehl’s basis for the apparent expertise here… are you guys railroad types, accountants, finance managers, or just very well versed in this particular arena? I am not taking shots at anyone, just real curious that’s all. I have read many threads on this site, with the above taking a major part, so I am just wondering, that’s all.
I retired three years ago. I got a BS in Transportation from the Univ. of Tenn. and followed that with 37 years in marketing and sales at the SOU, CRI&P, C&NW, SP and UP. I spent 14 years in the pre Staggers enviroment and 23 years in the post Staggers enviroment. Virtually all of my time was spent working with a long list of chemical and petroleum shippers such as DuPont, Dow, ExxonMobil, Shell, BP and Chevron.
I got yer carloading stats right here! It really wouldn’t hurt you to look at ALL the slides and maybe even read the text, you know! It isn’t always all happy talk.
TOFC service expansion would seem to be the avenue of greatest growth potential for railroads, but as you say they keep shooting themselves in the foot by trying to force their own indiosyncrasies onto what should be a rather simple operation. Just carry the d*** run of the mill OTR trailers from Point A to Point B. We don’t want to mess with reinforced trailers, domestic containers, and consolidated terminals so far from the real sources of truck traffic that it doesn’t even pay to drive to the intermodal terminal anymore.
BS in Economics with Transportation Emphasis from ISU (they didn’t have a de facto Transportation Economics program when I w
Thank you, gentleman, now I have some idea. Thanks… As for me… 15 years in Public Safety, most of it in the fire service,(Firefighter, EMT, 9-1-1 Operator) and additional back ground in Information Technology. ($20,000 for school, and 5 years invested in the field… and I am still dispatching fire trucks… oh well, I love my job anyway) [:D] (Besides, I work 4 days on, 4 days off… can’t beat that schedule)
My experience with railroads is basically from behind a viewfinder, but all of your threads, and posts are at least well thought out, and researched, and quite informative… Both this, and the DME thread have been full of great information… It helps me understand why the railroads do what they do, and the way they do it…
This may be slightly off topic,but I was interested to know if any of you guys got to see the news report about containers. I believe it was on CBS news about a month ago. The report was about how shippers don’t care to back-haul empty containers, so they are stacking up at an alarming rate. Some cities are beginning to see this as a problem and are looking at ideas to get idle containers moved. One architect in southern Cal. has started using them as building material. It seems that it is cheaper and easier to just build new containers overseas and send them one-way. What do you guys think this will do for containerized freight?
No, it actual upholds the contention that 30% or more of rail shippers are captive:
“Nationwide, as much as 30 percent of railroad revenue came from shipments transported at rates that exceeded the government threshold for warranting possible government review.”
“Nonetheless, various government and industry sources note that the top five railroads control about 90 percent of the country’s rail traffic, and that has a lot of shippers claiming they are the victim of market power wielded by railroads that are often the only transport option for commodities.”
“…the GAO points out that “rail rates were generally higher in areas considered to have less railroad-to-railroad competition.” There is virtually no competition on the Great Falls line,…”
That 2000 STB study focusses on the parts of the country where there is an assumption of&
Gee Dave I guess you know the answer to the question but do not want to admit once again you are blowing smoke. Perhaps you are more interested in spelling than railroading. Frankly I am not interested in childish posts about spelling and I think few others posting here are either.
Well, explain to us how the federales can so blatantly contradict themselves? One agency states absurdly that railroads operate in a competitive environment, then reps from the MFR state that 30% of rail shippers are captive. You cannot have captive customers and a competitive environment at the same time. Clearly, the STB report is weighted by AAR influence, not by classical economists who argue intuitively that an integrated rail system is a natural monopoly. If railroads “clearly” have competition, then clearly there’d be more than one rail service provider for every stretch of track, because the only way to have clear in
In addition to what I’ve posted on my profile (click on the user name in any entry to see their profile), I also conduct shop tours at the East Broad Top Railroad’s 19th century style overhead shaft driven shops. Over the past 5 years, the Friends of the East Broad Top have been performing stabilization and repair work on the shops building as volunteer workers. Most of my knowledge of the current railroad scene comes from reading and what sounds logical from a business point of view. I also have a very accurate BS detector and with years of that experience, it’s easy for me to sort out the substance from the “fluff and fog.”
Who said anything about spelling? I proofread your post, and you have no spelling errors - every single word is spelled correctly! That deserves a big A+!
Now, as for asking a question completely out of context…
Well, explain to us how the federales can so blatantly contradict themselves? One agency states absurdly that railroads operate in a competitive environment, then reps from the MFR state that 30% of rail shippers are captive. You cannot have captive customers and a competitive environment at the same time. Clearly, the STB report is weighted by AAR influence, not by classical economists who argue intuitively that an integrated rail system is a natural monopoly. If railroads “clearly” have competition, then clearly there’d be more than one rail service provider for every stretch of track, because the
Well, explain to us how the federales can so blatantly contradict themselves? One agency states absurdly that railroads operate in a competitive environment, then reps from the MFR state that 30% of rail shippers are captive. You cannot have captive customers and a competitive environment at the same time. Clearly, the STB report is weighted by AAR influence, not by classical economists who argue intuitively that an integrated rail system is a natural monopoly. If railroads “clearly” have competition, then clearly there’d be more than one rail service provider for every stret
How could a captive wheat shipper “compete” with a non-captive USA shipper, let alone shippers in “China, Austrailia or Alberta” ?
The non-captive shipper is getting the “bail out,” not the captive shipper.
You’ve got it backwards.
Why?
*This is from Rail Price Advisor (lst Quarter, 2003). According to RPA, the “per ton” information is calculated from the 2001 Surface Transportation Board Revenue Shortfall Allocation Methodology" (RSAM) study.
Is that for the same distance…or what would the rate be for ton/mile, not just per ton?
I would expect it to cost more to go further…so not having the distance, or some assurance about it being a quote for the same distance, the numbers are not impressive…