I have come to the conclusion that any layout I build now will be multi deck shelf so I have decided the first thing I want to build for my next layout is a helix. in N scale would 17" radius inner track(down) and 19"radius outer track(up) be decent? should it be bigger? or would smaller be fine? anyone have any n scale helix operating experience?
I don’t have a helix, but I have studied them well.
In N scale, 17 & 19 inch radii should be acceptable for short, 2 to 3 turn helices. Lay out two arcs of track at 17 and 19 inches and roll your longest cars past each other to check for overhang and proper clearance. There will be more overhang on the 17" curve, but if it doesn’t interfere with cars on the 19" curve, your helix should work fine.
If you can afford a little more space, going up to 20 & 22 inches would make the grade a little less steep, allowing longer trains to travel up the helix without additional power. If it is possible to make your helix oval shaped, the grade will be even less.
Hope this answers your question.
Darrell, quiet…for now
Allowing a 2" rise per revolution on your 19" radius curve would still yield a 3.35% grade. This 2" rise might be enough for your trains but your hands will have very restricted movement in that space. The 2" curve radius difference should cause an interference problem, but N-scale engines are notoriusly light pullers. I agree with Darrell in his recommendation for a large radius or oval helix. A nolex (going around the perimieter of the entire layout) would result in an even gentler grade.
Leon,
I had thought about suggesting the nolix because that is what I am designing for myself, but crazyguy stated he was building a double-decked shelf layout. I figured he would put the helix in a corner and have both shelves run off of it.
I much prefer the nolix if you can design it into your layout space. In my case, I will have an 12x12 bedroom, but will need to leave a 3’ aisle on one wall (closet and entry door). The resulting 9x12 space would seem to be more than adequate for N scale, but in addition to the nolix, I want wider than 19" radius on most of the curves and grades of LESS than 1.5%. It will be a LONG nolix, much of it hidden on a middle level.
Crazyguy, Leon is right about the grade and clearance problems in a helix. Even an oval helix with 20" straight sections between the end curves will give you only 2" of clearance with a 2% grade, and the oval will be at least 6’ long and 3 1/2" wide! Now imagine that oval expanded out to the walls of your room and you get an idea of why nolixes are becoming more popular! In an 8x8’ room, each level of a nolix around the walls would give you about 4" of clearance with a grade of 1% or less! Most N scale locomotives can easily handle a longer train on a 1% grade. Newer locos can handle even longer trains on 1% grades.
You may not have the space for around the walls, but it is well worth the time to give consideration to the nolix idea.
Darrell, quiet…for now
Welcome. My dad and I are building a n scale (double track) helix right now. I will have to check on the measurements to see how big it is and compares to yours. Here are some pictures: http://www.railimages.com/gallery/jeffbaldwin
I will take some more this week, but school has been busy and I have finals next week 
Using Helicalc, a 2" rise on a 19" radius helix comes up to 1.67-percent. I believe that is right, because I have an 18.5" radius helix using about a little more than 2" per level rise, and according to Cadrail it is just about 2-percent exactly.
I’ve had no trouble on the 18.5" radius helix, although it is almost always downhill. I use a 24" helix on the other end of the staging area, which has a similar grade but a little more clearance between the levels.
theshadboy: if you could get me some dimensions of the one in your pics that would be great. I see you used 8 sections of wood per rotations… what dimensions and angles did you use for them? and what is the over all foot print size?
I am trying to sell my townhouse and buy a house so im hoping I will have more space in the future but for now I was going to build a double track 3-4 level helix as cheaply as possible and put a return loop on both ends and run trains up and down it to see how it works. would probally build one with cardboard or hardboard to keep it cheap. first attempt just be a proof of concept.
the idea is to either have a double track helix at one end of the layout and return loops on both shelfs at the other end with both returns loops being hidden by scenerey so I could get away with tighter radius on them.
either that or the helix would be in a corner with shelfs going outs in 2 directions from the helix. with no return loops and this would be mainly switching and point to point.
so my current space is a 9’10x8’11" spare bedroom all to myself(wife has the other 9x9 spare room for her hobbies)
the door is in the corner and a window not quite in the corner directly across from the door. walk in the room and walk across to the window and the closet is on the wall you just walked along but its not behind the door with the door open so I could build into the closet a little but i’ll be sad to loose all the space that keep my crap hidden [:D] ok so the door takes up 2’10 leaving me with 7’, the window ends at 4’10 leaving me 5’1" if I dont wanna block the window. the window only opens at the bottum and stops at 2’6" off the floor so im thinking anythign above the opening is fair game to block.
so esentially I have a 5’, 8’9", and 7 foot wall to run along in that order. the closet opening is 3’11"(its a little wider inside the opening) and is 2 feet deep so I could stick a helix i
Considering the size of your room (about 87.68 sq.ft.), the fact that you will need to leave room for aisles and access; and the area taken up by the helix you propose (about 8.7 sq.ft.), you would be wise to reconsider your plans.
Helices are notorious space-gobblers. In order to have a workable grade and curve radii, you end up with a huge portion of your valuable real estate in which you can do nothing. What can you do with the space inside the helix ? Nothing. How do you disguise the helix ?
Another thing to remember : a tight curve creates drag on a train which has the effect of increasing the grade, making it more difficult for locomotives to pull trains up. You’ll either have to add additional locomotives, or limit train length.
I would suggest using a no-lix. You can keep your grade down to 2% or less; have larger curves; easier access to the tracks (for maintainence, etc.); and have close to 9 sq.ft. more to use in your layout.
how do i get a train up to a 2nd level without going all the way around the room and without goin through the same scene a zillion times at different levels? the no-lix thing is something I have not heard of before.
if you go around the room how do you deal with the door into the room which swings into the room? also that is the space I have now… I am hoping my townhouse sells so we can buy a house… so helix design right now realisticly is just something I have been thinking of for years and I want to try it out so I can stop thinking of it.
if I run a narrow shelf all the way around a 9x9 room with a 1-1.5% grade how high will it be when it reach the begining assuming 20" radius and you have a door in one corner that swings in that effectly covers its own 32" radius.
Sorry about the delay. It took me awhile to get home and get homework done etc…
Anyway the radius of the inner track is 17.5" and the outer is 19". My dad says that if you can squeeze that extra inch you will be thankful later.
So far building the helix has not been that hard. Just a little tedious making sure we get the measurements right.
As for the angles of the octogons I made my dad do that. I think he just went into Xtrkcad and divided into an octogon. I have no idea what the angles are, he gave me a template and then I spent the rest of the afternoon cutting wood ;).
The overall footprint is 42" x 42".
I will find out the angles and measurements for the octogon pieces later…but it might be after finals.
Brian
One way is to put portions of the no-lix in tunnels. That way the train “disappears” for short periods of time; re-appearing later one giving the appearance that it is not running through the same scene more than once.
You’ll need some form of lift-out or swing-away “bridge” to cross in front of the door. If you look at my layout plans (click on the link in my signature below and look at photos 3-6), you’ll see how I dealt with a similar situation. (Note: the layout is still in the “benchwork construction” phase.) I have tracks passing the door 5 times, so I plan to build a “gate” so that I can swing away all 5 tracks at the same time.
Running a track around the perimeter of a 9 ft x 9 ft room gives you an approximate 390" run. A 1% grade will give you a 3.90" rise; 1.5% yields 5.85"; and 2% yields 7.80". You’ll probably need to make 2 or more full turns to get enough height. Of course, how you resolve the issue of the door will affect these calculations.