With today’s high horse power equipment, how common is doubling over grades or passes.
It is done. Especially on branch lines and short lines. But there the track may not be good enough for heavier, high horspower engines, either.
It also happens when they send a train out that is overtonnage. On 2.2% a single Dash 9 can only handle 1970 tons, 15-17 loads.
Many times I have had to double the hills as they send me out with too much tonnage or I loose an engine.
It happens. Mostly when a train has an engine failure on a line where there are no other trains operating within a reasonable time frame to either act as a helper or give up an engine to the afflicted train.
A Yardmaster that dispatches a train that is over tonnage for the power allocated to the train should have discipline assessed.
When it’s a directive from the terminal superintendant than the yardmaster should not be disciplined.
The fact that diesel units are more powerful than they once were doesn’t reduce the need for doubling grades. Climbing a 2% grade at 10 mph requires something like the same power as 50-60 mph on the level, and lots of trains don’t have that much power. If 95% of the division is level (or close enough), doubling the last 5% makes as much sense as it ever did.
Nowadays two-man crews and the various rules about hand brakes etc might make doubling too much trouble. But the same would be true with older diesels.
Rutledge hill in Iowa on the ICE ( old Milwaukee) is often times doubled by manifest trains (its not fun) and I have heard of some coal loads being tripled.Sometimes we are lucky and have enough HPT on the junkers to get up it with no problem, just a little nail biting and some really stressed knuckles.
BTW the coal loads are all powered by BNSF big heavy coal motors. Usually 3 in a conventional set up.The power desk gives you just enough to get em across the road.When I worked the Ottumwa sub on the BN we would crest the hill in Albia at 8 mph.If it was raining it was helper time.Well we got trains going to St Louis we would drop in Burlington that wound up getting a 2x2 or 3x1 set up.We came over Albia at 30 mph and the old man that lives next to the tracks nearly fell off his lawn mower when we blew by lol.
It does happen sometimes you do lose a motor and either get a push from the train behind you,or double it up.
95% of our territory is 2.2% hills, they know we will stall and have to double both hills, but the directive to use CN(0.8% grade) tonnage ratings instead of the BC Rail tonnage ratings remains.
The you sic the Division Manager on the terminal supt. for dispatching a derailment on the rails. A over tonnage train that is forced from a terminal and stalls where expected, is just as effective as a drailment in tying up the sub division where it stalls. Been there, done that and seen several terminal supts. ply their trade elsewhere.
#1 DPU. #2 Rules regarding tons per powered axle, train make up, and placement. With those rules in place, no train should be over tonnage. Nor should one be “forced” from a terminal. If your boss demands you break the rules, call for a good faith challange.
At least here, no train departs without approval of a manager, and then, if over tonnage, the left over is held to the following day or power is added unless the train reaches lenght restrictions.
Over tonnage for a hill? That never happens! All yardmasters, trainmasters, yard clerks, swithcmen, general managers, and train crews never make mistakes like that anymore.
LOL And pushers are not used anymore either…
Follow up question, when you stall out on a mainline grade, do you drop half of the train there blocking the main or are you allowed to reverse to a siding?
Probably depends on the rairoad, the line, the rules, the train, and the circumstances. Usually you cut the train into moveable segments, protect the rear (as required by rules in force) and take the front part to the nearest siding ahead and then return for the rest of the train parts.
Any and all of the above…
Cut the train, reverse move, get a helper, any of it is a valid answer.
It depends solely on the railroad’s demographics, the territory (Which siding is closer? Restricted speed reverse move or continue on with 1/2 the train at track speed?), etc.
There is not one size fits all.
A few years ago I overheard a nice bit of cooperation involving a BNSF coal train that stalled-out on the Hinckley Sub over near me in Bethel, MN. The BNSF train had only 2 units on the head-end, and one failed on them due to an oil pressue issue. They got shoved into the south siding at Cambridge by a kindly CP northbound crew who cut their train off in Cedar and helped-out before returning to their train (they figured they’d have to wait anyway until BNSF got a replacement unit up from Northtown). The BNSF crew was discussing doubling their train into the siding but figured the shove would be easier (they had to stop & protect at each grade-crossing per rules as I recall). They had a nice chat on the radio, including one BNSF crewman wanting to know how to apply for a job on CP.
In the quest to broaden my knowledge of railroading…
What does “doubling over” mean?
It’s where they split a train into two segments to get it up over a hill (drag it up one piece at a time). Tripling would mean splitting it into 3 segments.
I mostly saw the rear section of the train left on the main where the train came to a stop. By blocking the line behind, nobody can scoop them (get by and arrive at the end terminal first - first in first out). This might have to be varied if the rear half was blocking a busy road crossing. The possibility of reversing to a siding has become a lot more inconvenient now cabooses are eliminated, since someone has to walk all the way to the tail end to protect the reverse movement. In the old days of train order operation, the marker lights on the caboose played an important role, indicating that the entire train had arrived at a meeting point.
John
Doubling over is different from doubling a hill. Doubling over happens in the yard when the crew has to pick up 2 or more tracks to make up their train. They pull the first track out and “double over” to the next one and so on to put the train together.
Doubling the hill is when you split the train, take the first half to the top of the hill and go back for the tail end.