Somebody better get ready to explain to Mookie what an IBC is as well…(Hint: it’s not an itty-bitty-chinaman)
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Itty-bitty-chicken? [:D] Ok - I am curious - what is an IBC? Doesn’t anyone in this world talk in words instead of letters anymore? I can’t remember all these acronyms!!!
Mook!
Jen
Look closer next time i believe the type of car you are talking about it dont have wells on them it looks like a frame with no flat either the container fits on this frame and on the corners there is a lip sticks up to sit down into. this is what holds them on the car. didnt mean to insult you exsplaining containers and trailers. i just exsplained it another way.
[:I] Aw Wabash - you can’t insult me - I have pretty tough hide! If someone really gets on my nerves (MO) I will let them know!!! Just appreciate your input!
This is a good explanation. Like I said - these trains are either coming in or going out - in this case, they were coming in and sometimes they just don’t slow down to a crawl. What I need to have happen is for them to set one out for me to actually go up and get my hands on it, to see how it is put together. And the probability of that happening is about the same as MO being declared sane! [8D]
Jen
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First, I know the difference between containers and trailers. That made this even more interesting. I remember thinking at the time - this particular pig train had FLAT cars - no wells, no restraints that were visable and they weren’t double stacks. Only one container high! So what kept the containers from sliding off? Weight?
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From the envelope in Karnac’s Funk & Wagganal’s Mayo Jar on Mookie’s back porch:
IBC=Inter Box Connector , what holds the stack containers (sea cans) together and to the spine or well car…(see earlier thread)
(ps: you ought to see what happens when a 19’-4" tall stack train goes through a 18’-9" tall tunnel)
(Beginning to suspect somebody’s office is wedged in between the Lincoln depot and the crossings at the fairgrounds)
First, I know the difference between containers and trailers. That made this even more interesting. I remember thinking at the time - this particular pig train had FLAT cars - no wells, no restraints that were visable and they weren’t double stacks. Only one container high! So what kept the containers from sliding off? Weight?
[/quote]
From the envelope in Karnac’s Funk & Wagganal’s Mayo Jar on Mookie’s back porch:
IBC=Inter Box Connector , what holds the stack containers (sea cans) together and to the spine or well car…(see earlier thread)
(ps: you ought to see what happens when a 19’-4" tall stack train goes through a 18’-9" tall tunnel)
(Beginning to suspect somebody’s office is wedged in between the Lincoln depot and the crossings at the fairgrounds)
[/quote]
[:D] You get the early morning award for starting my day off in stitches!
And from the same Mayo jar - you are right - Go Big Red! [:p]
I hate to continue to be a nuisence - no I dont…
I got my flat cars are straightened out, I know how the cargo hangs on, now.
One more item - I see what looks like the “fifth wheel” (?) on a tractor/trailer rig (on the tractor part - on some of the flat cars. Are these used for the same purpose? These flat cars have no containers or trailers on them - just empty.
Sigh - here we go again!
Jen
Yes, Jen, those “fifth wheels” are the hitches for trailers, basically the only way they are attached to the flat cars. In the days of “circus” loading (where trucks actually backed the trailers into position on strings of the cars) these hitches had to be flat against the deck until they were supporting the trailers (never saw how they did that!), but nowadays, when most trailers and containers are lifted on and off the cars by cranes or “Piggy-packers”, they’re built in the raised position.
Some of the spine cars do have hitches than can be lowered, making them suitable for containers (these are usually lettered TTAX).
Back to earlier posts on this thread, I suggested that the cars you and your driver might have seen were “Long-Runner” cars. Those would not have had containers on them, since a container would be too rigid to be put over the drawbar (on the trailer, the hitch and the tires give a little more flexibility for going through curves). They would have been lettered TTEX.
Try to get the precise reporting mark off any TTX cars you have questions about. They assign a different set of reporting marks to every type of car they operate.
As for the train line (air hose), it had to be there somewhere, since the brake line must run the entire length of the train. The drawbar-connected cars I’ve seen usually have conventional hoses, right down to the gladhands (couplings) between the units.
Carl
Carl - I will look and make note next time. We do see some very strange things going thru here!
I told my driver the same thing - that air hose has to go the length of the train, but neither one of us remember seeing anything “hanging down”. I will beg to go again this weekend and see what other really strange things I can come up with!
Thanx
Sis
O.K. Mook. Heres a curve ball for you. Now your brain is really gonna smoke. Ever heard of a Road Railer?
Ken
Yeah Ken, believe it or not, I have heard of them. I have never seen one, but I know what you are talking about. What I saw was just containers, only one or two to a flatcar. No stacking, no trailers, and not even all flatcars had containers on them. Then the deal with the drawbar - never did see the air hose. Unless it is a short one that doesn’t hang down and it was on the opposite side of the drawbar.
Jen
Will try to make this as non-controversial as possible.
Saw a pig train. Saw regular couplers. Saw flatcars put together as a unit - shared wheels. But then saw just drawbars with no couplers. Assume these are also a “unit”.
Any comments?
Jen
Multiple-unit cars come two ways:
Articulated cars share a common truck between units.
Stand-alone cars are connected by a drawbar between units, but each unit rides on its own trucks.
The flatcars are probably “long runners” - two 89’ flatcars connected with a drawbar and configured to carry three 53’ trailers. One trailer spans the connection between cars. Double-stack cars are also built with drawbars for higher load capacities than articulated cars have, especially for loading with two 53’ containers in each car.
The articulated flatcars were probably spine cars, designed to carry one trailer or container on each platform.
All of these are just variations on designs to efficiently carry containers and trailers. the “long runners” are generally recycled flatcars, in order to get more service life out of the cars.
i see those on CN trains all the time
they carry just the same way as a normal flat or well car does
Hi Jenny,
Were the flat cars regular flats, or well cars designed to carry containers?
Most container cars are permanently or semi-permamently connected with draw bars, in three or five car units. They count as one car in your consist, granted one long car.
ATSF had quite a few five unit well cars that shared a set of trucks between the middle cars, with a coupler at either end.
Either way, when the cars are connected by a drawbar instead of a coupler, all the cars connected are deemed as a single car.
So if you have 2 sets of five unit well cars, even though you have 10 wells, you only have two cars.
Yes, it can cause problems when talking to a dispatcher, you only have ten cars, but your train is thousands of feet longer than it should be.
Once you tell them what kind of cars, they understand.
So the answer to both of your questions is yes.
Stay Frosty,
Ed
One addition to what Ed said. The stack packs are one car for manifest purposes, but for air brake purposes they are more. Usually a 5-pack has two air brake valves, while a 3-pack has only one. This becomes important when you have to set out a bad order or when one of the valves fails.
LC
In these parts, they count platforms, not cars, to prevent confusion. A train with ten 5-packs has 50 cars as far as the RTC (dispatcher) is concerned. They often speak in terms of train length (in feet) and tonnage, since that gets right to the point of what sidings he’ll fit and how fast he’ll be getting over the road.
you are making it hard on a novice.
Maybe you should explain what I would see if I saw a “spine” car, a “well” car and a flat car - which I always thought I knew what it looked like.
These cars - only two of them - looked very flat to me - had only a drawbar between them. No couplers. Looked just like normal flatcars, otherwise. No air between them, no frills, no nothing - just what looked like two drawbars, somehow held together.
Jen
went out on Google - saw some well cars - none of these were well cars. They were all flat - not sure about spine or not. Which brings up another question - a well car and a gondola - is it the shape that makes these two different?
Jen
A well car is designed to carry containers; a gondola isn’t.
The well car is shaped vaguely like a gondola, except the well is between the trucks, riding just above the rail, whereas a gondola’s “well” is above the trucks. The well car is designed this way to keep the top of the load (two stacked containers) low to clear obstructions, and to keep the center of gravity low.
Question, if you took a trilevel auto rack, and removed the rack and enclouser, would that be close to what you saw?
UP recycled some old racks, ttx cars, into special flat cars for odd shaped cargo, turbines, generators, big heat condensers, things like that.
just a thought.
Ed