I just acquired a couple of Genesis F7 AB units and Atlas GP7s. What are the KD drop in replacement couplers for these units if any. I was really curious about the new 148 whisker couplers. Will they work? I have also heard Kadee is going to be making these in different lengths. Can anyone verify this. Thanks
Here is the Kadee conversion list: http://www.kadee.com/conv/holist.pdf
Jim
I’m not familiar with the particular locos you’re talking about, but a couple general points to consider when converting to Kadee’s (or any coupler for that matter):
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Start with owning a Kadee height gauge, even for other brands of knuckle couplers. It’s only $4.00 and having a good reference to set all your couplers to the proper height and trip pin clearance will save you NUMEROUS headaches in the future.
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Is the coupler pocket in the loco frame in question part of the metal so that it will be “charged” with one rail’s polarity? If so, the potential for a short when double heading must be considered when choosing metal couplers. Two choices: Use one of the plastic couplers, or mount the coupler in the Kadee plastic box to electrically isolate the coupler from the frame.
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Since I’ve never found the coupler mounts in any rolling stock to be totally consistant from one item to another, I simply drop a Kadee #5 into the box and check it with the Kadee gauge. They have a full line of offset head, long and short shank couplers, so it makes it easier to line up the coupler in the cast on box.
Another item to consider, and not just the coupler height is the clearance above. For example, on my Walthers Viewliner coaches, I had to use overset couplers to clear the diaphrams.
If your F units have the short draft gear box like standard Bachs, KD recomends the 148’s. The whiskers come in three lengths. The 148’s are the medium length and the recomended replacement for the older #5’s. I’d try a pair of the shortest ones between the AB units for protypical “short coupling”. I would take a guess that these (the 148’s) would work on the Atlas also but that’s a guess.
The whiskers are not made with offset heads so make sure you get a coupler height gauge.
Okie:
Follow the Kadee conversion guide–when I converted my Genesis F3’s last year, required using the 30 series conversion kits(36 and 38 for my particular units)–the 148 was the only whisker available then, now there are a few others, the 158 which is the whisker version of the 58, and the 153 and the 156 which are short and long shank respectively. These might parallel some of the conversions you would need bo make–I haven’t checked the Kadee website recently to see if they’ve added them as an alternative for the conversions, but you can figure that out by seeing which length coupler is needed for the particular conversion.
Jim
Due to how close the rear coupler box is to the truck for close coupling, standard design Kadees (like the #5s) won’t fit. The boxes are designed to hold McHenrys, so the Kadee Whiskers should work pretty well.[:D] Just be sure to get a short shank coupler for the rear and a longer one for the front, and you should be fine.[:D].
Pulling up an old thread to see if anyone has any updates.
I just did a conversion of a Genesis F3. I do not like the way the suggested #38 fits. As with all Athearn F units, the clearance between the rear of the truck and back of the coupler is so close the slightest grade will cause interfearance. I could cut the funny bump of the back of the truck, or file one side of the screw that holds the coupler in but I don’t like either of those options.
So I went to a #8, which seems to work well for the rear (I love the centering spring assembly in the #6-#9 series).
What have people discovered about the whisker series in this application? Those are the one size I don’t have in my home collection and of course the hobby store isn’t open today.
I use the 148’s for dead replacements for all number 5’s those 5’s are being retired one by one.
I dont own any atlas or genesis units and can only point towards the previous posts as guide.
UPDATE
Update update, here is what I found out. I just worked couplers for another set of Genesis F3s. The whisker couplers do not work for a drop in replacement. They are too thick. When the screw is tightened the coupler won’t swing. I tried to file down the #148 whiskers shank to make it fit. I was rewarded by ruining the spring (whisker). So what I finally did was to file down the coupler cover plate. I went with a #156 on the front and a #148 on the rear. Note that the reduced thickness of this solution makes the cover more fragile.
How about using the cover from a #5 box as a replacement cover?? I have a couple sets of Genesis F units and am curious about getting rid of those god awful plastics pos couplers…
Three reasons that won’t work. 1. That has all the clearance problems of just using a #5 straight up. The #5 extends way to far “back” into the frame and hits the trucks. 2. It would not fit onto the existing pocket as well and extend further out. 3. The screw has to be the tapered head that came with the unit. This would require a countersinking be cut into the #5 cover.
The cover from a #30 series would probably work better than a #5, but would not fit onto the existing pocket either.
So how well does it work? I was considering possibly getting some Genisis F-units, but if this doesn’t work well, I might not get the Genisis F-units.
If you can could you post pics of your install?
It seems to work well, or I wouldn’t have posted it. The couplers perform as expected and disconnect as expected over magnets. But I’ll guess I should reserve making that a hard core statement until they have been through a few operating sessions.
I don’t now how much a photo would actually show. Maybe I can make a sketch, hmmm…
- remove screw & save.
- remove coupler box cover & file inside down until there is just a hint of the side notches left.
- replace factory coupler with #148, #158, or #156 (front of A unit).
- replace filed down coupler box cover.
- replace screw.
I’ve encountered the same issue with my newly acquired modernized Genesis F units. I’ve tried using a #36 for the pilot (front) of the A unit as recommended by the Kadee website and using the stock coupler pocket and cover. I used a #5 centering spring but the coupler would not move back and forth freely once the holding screw was even close to being tightened. One of my club’s knowledgeable members suggested trying a #148 also but per the above posts, it sounds like it will take some surgery to make this work. I sent an e-mail to Kadee to solicit advice and will post their response on this thread if and when I hear back from them.
I use the Kadee #36 on the nose and #38 0n the B units and the rear of the A’s. The tapered head screw that comes with the loco interferes with the swiveling of the rear truck, so I use the plastic screw that comes with the Kadees, after cutting it to the proper length with rail nippers.
A problem I sometimes have when coupling the nose to a car is that the pilot of the F unit makes contact with the car’s trip pin (the “air hose”) and keeps the knuckle open, thus preventing a coupling to take place. I S’pose a longer shank will solve that problem, but in the meantime, I’ll just swing the pin out of the way a little bit.
I received a reply from the Kadee answer man about this today. The recommendation from them is as follows:
Well, that is a little diaspointing.
Perhaps it depends on your interpretation of the words “Drop-in”.
Kadee’s chart shows # 30 series. MY Genesis ‘F’-A units had too short, too thin, an opening for the standard KD, so it took a #20 series. To preserve the original close-coupling I used the#28. (for greater spacing a #26), and #33’s for between units.
Since Athearn tooled the ‘A’ shell (not the ‘B’), I figured this was intentional. and (2) Since Athearn uses a ‘hot’ chassis, the plastic 20’s /30’s coupler is to be preferred. It’s stronger than the OEM supplied part.
After some trial and error, I was able to fit a Kadee on the pilot (front) of my Athearn modernized F7A. Here is what worked for me:
I decided to use a Kadee #156 rather than the #158. I did this because the #156 is 25/64" in length while the #158 is a little shorter at 9/32" length. This gives me a little more clearance in order to avoid another car’s trip pin from rubbing up against the snow plow limiting the chances of an an unintentional decouple.
I used the original Athearn coupler pocket, pocket cover and screw. (My loco also came with a couple of spare pockets and covers.)
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[*]I filed the front part of the coupler pocket cover. You will start out with a cover that has a rounded tab which faces toward the front when it is in place. This tab is the part that gets pinched against the body and limits the coupler from freely swinging back and forth from the center position when the screw holding the assembly is tightened. You should file this tab down until the front of the cover is flat. You might need to take it down even a little bit further. There is no need to alter the stock pocket itself.
[*]Drop the coupler into the pocket and position it in place making sure that the trip pin is facing the bottom. Place the cover which was filed down in the last step on the pocket making sure that the beveled side of the hole is facing out in order to accommodate the stock countersunk screw. Once all is is in place, tighten the assembly down with the screw. If you are like me, you will end up dropping the cover and or screw into the bowels of the loco a few times before you succeed getting everything in place and the screw tightened.
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Since the stock coupler pocket is plastic with a plastic pivot that isolates the coupler from the screw, and the cover is plastic, the coupler is isolated from the chassis. I believe I’ve read somewhere that the Genesis locomotive chassis is already electrically isolated from ground to begin with, so the worry
The (supplied) Genesis coupler ‘box’ is too short and has too thin an opening for the standard Kadee metal coupler.
This was no accident. Modifications must be made , or use a #28 or #26 on the Pilot end. The #33 preserves close coupling and should clear the trucks, and they have intoduced a new version 33 - calling it a #252, which eliminates the 30’s centering spring.
I HAVE LEARNED to make peace with the 30 Series by ‘practice’ practice’ & keeping an extra supply of those #30 centering-springs. The new #252 is a shorter version using the ‘Whisker’ style centering spring.