How does one use a DT400R with a zephyr system? Do I have to get a larger Digitrax system or can I just get some basic stuff to set up Radio Control on the layout?
Irv
To make the R part work, you will need a UR91 or the upcomming UR92. Just plug it in to the loconet and you will have simplex radio.
David B
All you do is get an UR91 radio panel and plug it into the loconet connector on the back of the Zephyr and your DT400R will work with the Z. You will also get the additional functions that the DT400 has. It is really simple to do, which is part of the beauty of the Loconet infrastructure. You don’t have to configure the Z in anyway.
David is alluding to the new duplex radio system from Digitrax that has been demonstrated at a couple of shows. It is expected that it will be announced formally at the National Trainshow this week. According to reports there will be a new 2 way radio panel, the UR92 and a 2 way radio version of the DT400. Reports also suggest that non 2 way DT400’s will be able to be sent in for upgrade. To my knowledge there has been no mention of price for any of these things. Apparently UR91’s are fairly hard to come by at the present time. Many of the main dealers are showing them out of stock.
Don’t you also need a PS12 power supply for the UR91?
It comes with it.
David B
Thanks. I was under the impression that I might need more than the basic Zephyr system to get up and running with a DT400R besides the UR-91 and its power supply.
Irv
corsair7, hope you don’t mind my jumping in here with a question similar to yours…
I’ll have an 8X16 foot oval-ish layout with a three track yard, an industrial switching puzzle area
and should be able to run three maybe four trains simultaneously.
I was wondering also if the Zephyr would be enough. I know that I can run up to ten locos with a Z
but wondered what other future considerations I might need to take into account… would the Empire Builder be much more useful for running future accessories such as building lighting, switch motors,
other things I haven’t even thought of yet?
I know I’d like more throttles than the Zephyr’s anyway. I go to operation sessions on other guys layouts and the 400 is the throttle of choice. If I’m going to buy more throttles (at least one) later, wouldn’t the Empire Builder serve us better on that basis alone PLUS provide for more accessories use later?
After reading through pdf manuals, etc. I’m still not sure if I need or would find it beneficial to have radio
control as opposed to infra red. What’s the consensus?
One friend from the board thought it would be well worth getting the Empire Builder over the Zephyr even for a small to mid sized layout. What are the realistic considerations?
Thanks. I hope replies to my questions above will help corsair as well.
I’ll be buying one or the other by Fall. I was going to wait and see what the newest systems consisted of
and to figure out if I’d want or need duplex radio. I may have one grade greater than 3%…
if you are planning to keep your Zephyr the empire builder would suit you fine as the zephyr can read back CV’s when programming. it would also give you an option to use one as an auto reverser. BUT, for the extra few bucks i would get the chief. it specs out much better the empire builder for comparatively little extra. as to the radio, the UR91 will only work with the current radio throttles. when the UR92 comes out for the duplex radio, it won’t see the current radio throttles as the frequency is 2.4ghz rather than 900mhz. if you want to use both types of radio you will need both types of receiver
Capt. Grimek,
The Z has more than enough power for the locomotives that you want to run. As noted in answers to the other OP the DT400 just plugs into the Loconet. If your main concern is powering accessory items, I would use a separate power-supply and not draw power from the DCC system for this regardless of the model that you have. IMO the lack of CV read-back is drawback in the Empire Builder and personally I would not get one as my main command station for that reason.
When I was making my decision, I did not even consider the Empire Builder because it uses a booster rather than a command station.
I compared the Zephyr to the Chief and bought the Chief.
In my humble opinion, Digitrax should replace the Empire Builder with a 5 amp Zephyr.
I am not interested in buying another system at this point since my layout will be in N-Scale and will be G shaped and located in 12 x 16 room. I am not sure if the Zephyr’s 2.5 amps will be enough because of the distance since my current track plan shows that it will have a lot of track distance in there. Besides I want to be able to walk around with my trains without having to tether myself to Loconet. In other words, I want a wireless system between my handheld controller and the layout. I also want to be able to run more than one train at a time. Plus, if someone else wants to run a train, I want them to able to do so. So I may have at east 3 operators on my system at any given time and someone may be assigned to run the yard which will be located at top end of the G.
I am not sure whether I will be using powered turnouts or manual turnouts at the moment but the possibility does exist that at some point that will happen. And there may be some animation as well as some of the scenes I plan to feature at various points may require lights and sounds triggered by a passing paasenger train.
Irv
Irv, the track distance is all but irrelevant. If you have used good wiring practice with a decent power bus and feeders to the track the distances you are talking about will have so little voltage drop to be of no concern. If the wiring is not good, it won’t matter how many amps the system has, it will not run well. In other words 5 Amps don’t somehow reach further than 2.5 Amps. When you think in terms of current (amps) imagine a hose pipe. Water going in at one end comes out at the other no-matter how long the pipe!
Personally, I would power all accessories and animation projects from a separate power supplies rather than try and tap into the DCC system power regardless of if you have a Z, EB or Chief as the command station. Adding radio to any Digitrax system is identical, connect radio panel to Loconet and utilize radio throttle. Adding throttles to any of the system is also identical.
The limits that you should concern yourself with are:
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The number of locomotives that can be run simultaneously due to power limitations of the booster. With n scale the Z will easily handle 10.
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The number of locomotives that can run simultaneously based on limitations of the command station control system. With the Z this is 10.
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The total number of throttles that can be run by a command station. Again this happens to be 10 with the Z.
So unless you really think you will exceed these limitations then the Z will handle what you want to do.
i am not convinced that the zephyr would be happy running 10 loco’s/addresses at once if you consider this could include consists? which would be more than 10 loco’s in terms of current/amps required. it would be better to get a chief and use that as the command station as it specs better than the zephyr in current, addresses in use etc. use the zephyr as a booster located near the yard where it’s lack of mobillity won’t be an issue. this would allow more then ten addresses in use and they could even be small consists with the available power. also for tyhe extra very few bucks, get the 8 amp system. it will work on a 5 amp supply, and if you start to get near the 5 amp limit of your transformer and need more amps you can swap the transformer used at a later date with a more powerful one without the need for another booster. another bonus of using the zephyr is that it or the chief could be set for auto
People underestimate what the Z can handle. We run 10 HO locos most with sound with our Z all the time. I’m not saying that a twin booster system using a Chief or a DB150 as a slave to the Z, would be a bad thing, simply that the Z will in many cases be more than up to the task.
Capt. Grimek,
The Zephyr can handle more than 10 locos as long as some of the locos are programmed to the same address. For example, I have a 4-car RDC train on my Zephyr-powered layout. Each one is programmed to 4448, and they all run as that number. This 4-loco train only counts as one DCC address slot in the Z’s memory. This is called “basic consisting”, and is useful for loco sets like RDC’s and ABBA’s of F-units. Essentially, the limit of “10 locos” is actually 10 slots of memory (which I’ve heard is really 12, but I’ve never tested it) in which you can have active DCC loco addresses. If I “MU” those 4 RDC’s in the normal (“Universal Consisting”) way, they would take up 4 slots. Likewise, if I broke up the MU and left the headlights on each one, they are still taking up 4 slots. To make sure you clear out a loco from the slot memory, make sure it’s speed is zero, all the functions are off, and it’s not MU’d to anything. Otherwise, it will still occupy a slot.
Like others have said, I would not use the Z or any DCC system to power accessories other than DCC controlled switches (and even then, you should probably have the aux. power supply to run those, too).
I know you want more throttles for the Z, but don’t forget about the jump ports. This allows up to 2 DC throttle packs to be turned into DCC throttles.
As for IR vs. radio, the radio wins hands down. It’s much more dependable, and when you’re approaching the bumper and you need to stop ASAP…well. If the IR cuts out (or doesn’t receive), let’s just say that you will test the bumper. The radio, OTOH, usually works. Think of the IR ability as your TV remote. Now try to imagine pointing your TV remote at the floor or ceiling and it still working. Odds are, it won’t.
The size of the layout really doesn
Paul:
Sorry. Poor choice of words. I should have said DB vs DCS, better suited as a booster.
@ paul 3, i realise the cost implications, but for some reason i thought ( probably wrongly ) adding a booster was in the equation. my point was that between the cost of the empire builder and the chief, and the 5 amp vs 8 amp, i would opt for an 8 amp chief. obviously with no booster required the Zephyr could suffice. i have seen the 2.5 amps current rating, but some people are claiming just short of 10 HO DCC sound loco’s, which would seem a bit much for under 2.5 amps?? in pure obvious numbers 2.5 amps divided by 10 addresses is 250ma or 1/4 amp per loco. speaking on the UK stuff, hornby have had problems with ONE loco being too much for their DCC chip with a 500ma motor output. most people are using 1 amp motor output decoders. if we say 500ma for a smooth running US loco in HO, that is only 5 loco’s and then we have sound to think of ( what does sound use in current?? ) it would appear the 2.5amp spec for the zephyr may be an understatement with a lot of margin for error??
on a side note, i think the zephyr would be better with encoder rather than a potentiometer so it would leave an acquired loco running at is acquired speed rather than suddenly changing it to suit the controller possition and then you could always stop the loco or give it full monty. also something would need to be done with the direction switch too? just a button like the DT400 would do, but you’d have to loose the brake setting. in fact what i’m suggesting would be a DT400 in a big box with a big display and only 1 encoder. expanding on that they could put 2 encoders on with knobs similar in size to the UT4 and make it something like the hornby ‘elite’ but keep the jump port option. this odcourse would loose the 'train driver 'control aspect of the zephyr and turn it into a fixed DT400 with BIG knobs and display.
Thanks everyone. I’m learning a lot of info. here that I haven’t been able to find or decipher previously.
Hopefully the OP is too. Paul3 your post was especially clear and precise for me in a “primer” sort of way One more question? Using DC throttles like MRC Tech !! I’d only have speed and direction control correct? And would this be “converted” to DCC control, I presume? or remain DC for those locos?
I’m hanging in to hear more from everyone.
For locoworks, on a friend’s layout at his lst operating session he asked all of us to put our locos on the layout at the finish of the session to see how many it could truly handle. We had 8 and it handled that fine.
Too bad we didn’t have 2 or 4 more to test the situation. We didn’t think about helpers/consists, so that will be something I’ll mention to him this afternoon when I go over there to test run some new passenger cars.
Thank You. As always, this forum is one of the best around anywhere.
Capt.
When you use a jump throttle, you assign a DCC equipped locomitive to the external jump throttle. You then have speed and direction control using the knob and reverse switch of the DC throttle. The locomotive is actually under full DCC control with the Zephyr taking the output of the DC throttle and converting it to DCC commands that are then sent out on the track to the locomotive that is assigned to the jump throttle.